Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

[Acroeric]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

Jim- My ribs were 1.2 ounce lighter than the stock post war ribs, the pre war ribs may indeed be lighter but what you gain in the glue joint between the spar and rib is really nice. I also used wood leading edges and that added more than anything to the strength- you just have to make sure it is straight when you glue them down. . . not much twist after it dries.

[Acroeric]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

Here is a comparison I did between my 160 hp Cole and my O-200 powered Swick that I had on my website. I, like everyone have my preferences but they both performed great.

The 160 hp Cole T weighed 1000 pounds and the Swick with the 100 hp
weighs 752. Both fly very well but very different.
The Cole could not be 3 point landed- It liked to be wheel landed and
was really happy doing so. The little Swick is just the opposite- it likes 3
pointers. Below are the speeds and climb info-
Cole 160 hp Swick 100 hp
Max Level 145mph 120mph
Cruise 125mph 105mph
Climb 1700fpm 1250fpm
1 Turn Spin -650 feet -400 feet
Loop (competition) 4g's 3.5g's
1/2 Cuban 125 mph plus 110 mph plus
Speed at low pass 180 mph 140 mph



As you all can see these are very different planes. The heavier Cole
really doesn't fly anything like a stock Tcraft. It looses the feel of a
light plane due to the weight and the speed. I think it probably is more
like a Clip Wing Monocoupe than a Tcraft. When the nose comes down you had better
have your hand on the throttle. I saw 180 mph many times without trying and
it loads up real quick with G's. It flys great, just not like a Tcraft. The
Swick would not go 180 if you pulled the wings off and sharpened the cowl. I loop
it and just leave the power in all the way around. My exit speed is
identical to entry and I can do it from 2.5 to 4.5 G's depending on the shape I want.
Spins are very different as well. The Cole spins well and keeps a nose
down attitude but loses alot of altitude. The Swick really gets wrapped up
and only loses 350-400 feet per fully developed turn. Both come out
immediately.
If I had to choose it would be easy. The 160hp Tcraft is really cool
with it's take off power and vertical penetration. It is rock solid on
landings as long as you wheel it in. The downside- fuel burn was high,
landings fast, controls heavy, and overall too fast for the airframe. The
plane was just not happy always being over 135mph and this was with a climb
prop. The 100 hp Swick can do an entire basic sequence in very little
airspace and with very close climb performance. It burns 5.5 gallons of auto
per hour versus 10 gph of avGas. Landings are easy as a stock T. Controls
are light and it is easier to stay out of Vne and G limits. Acro becomes more
comfortable except for the coughing engine when inverted. The lighter Swick
wins my vote for overall fun. This is not to say that it is better just my
preference. I am really glad I have had the chance to own both. If any of
you have any questions feel free to call or write.

[crispy critter]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

Eric,
Do you still have your "All Wood Wing" project?
Also,How's the house coming along,are you about to get moved in?I bet Kim and the girls are about to run ya nuts in the small rental.We had a tree fall through our roof a couple weeks ago and we lost use of more than half the house while being repaired.I just got the roof back on yesterday,still have a lot of finishing to do but at least we have full use of the house now.We have been living in less than half of the house for the last 2 weeks and with Marsha,3 daughters,one son,and ONE BATHROOM.....let's just say it has been interesting!

[Dick Huish]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

I always heard that you should have one more bathroom than the total number females in the house (number of males doesn't matter) Dick
BTW, I am out numbereed 6 to 1 and I believe it !!!

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

Eric, 1.2 oz is a bunch lighter. I will weigh one of my L2 ribs(wood) against the pre- war. Always heard the stamped were a fair amount heavier but we will see... No doubt about the strength though. The all wood wing is indeed nice.

Don, As far as Aircraft Spruce and Speciality Inc goes... My experience is with ordering stock for stock Taylorcraft Spars. Had zero luck with A.S.S Inc (no ill will towards them with the initials.. just how it comes out ) You have used both also.... I found the price from Wicks to be less. Aircraft Spruce also had me held up for months(although they did not charge my credit card like someone else we all know has been doing) Have you tried both for SPARS recently? Might be that it was just a time period when I ordered from them. I am interested because I will be ordering some (set)for the clip in the next 30 days. Best regards Don

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

Lets get back on Topic. I have asked Forrest and Eric about the Howard minus T and had not heard back suppose no one knows much about these as there were only a few . Just asking one and all to see what was done to the wings besides wacking off around 31 inches (1st wing bay). Robert your pictures of the restoration of the one now in your part of the world help. Just wondering if there is any narritive about what mods were done to the rest of the wing (if any) on the Howard T . Same goes for the controls etc. Again this looks to be a really neat clip. Not sure if is much for heavy acro or not though....... Anyone???

[Acroeric]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

Sorry- I tend to get a bit off topic. . . . I have no real working knowledge of the Howard. All I have seen is the one Robert Lees has on his site.

I had a typo on the weight of my ribs. . they are 1/2 ounce lighter not 1.2 ounces. The / is next to the . and I had a slip up.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

There is no narrative (or more importantly, approved data) from the designer of the Howard T-Minus, despite my having written to him several times, so I know nothing about the technical aspects of the design, other than it in the Experimental category. My own opinion is that there were modifications done to the structure, but since the aircraft is not owned by me (or available to me to have a good look at) I cannot confirm the extent of any changes.

But it flies nice.

[Howard Wilson]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

There is a black and white photo of the "only faa registered" T - at 1000aircraftphotos.com FAA records at landings .com show a 180hp lyc. 1 seat, built in 1968, and an 85mph cruise?? stall maybe? Rob did you see the Seattle address?

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

Eric, No apology needed! Always good feed back from you. The only thing I might add to your ascessment of the Cole Vs the Swick is that people may need to be again reminded to realize ( you so stated) that you were compairing a 160 lyc plane (Cole) to a 100 hp non electrical (I think) Swick. Just wany the readers to realize that given the same engines the Cole is definently the lighter not heavier. Your engine packages definently shifted the equasion. Hope to see you soon? Perhaps you can make a SC breakfast club ? Your belt awaites for furthestflight if your lucky that day!

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

There is no narrative (or more importantly, approved data) from the designer of the Howard T-Minus, despite my having written to him several times, so I know nothing about the technical aspects of the design, other than it in the Experimental category. My own opinion is that there were modifications done to the structure, but since the aircraft is not owned by me (or available to me to have a good look at) I cannot confirm the extent of any changes.

But it flies nice.

Thank You Robert. Looks like this one will ( or has already gone ) to someones grave. Too bad I ll keep on "digging" excuse the pun!

[gmackay]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

So why is the Cole a lighter ship (given the same engine)? And how do they compare as far as wingpspan?

Greg MacKay

[Acroeric]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

The two conversions come out about the same weight as both add structure, fuel, etc. If you wanted to build the lightest one possible build a Swick with standard wing tanks, no servo tabs (not needed), and no electric. Use the stock cowl and mount and you have a fairly simple conversion at around 720 pounds.

Liesa Marie (the 180 Hp Swick Forrest flys) is the lightest Lycoming powered clip wing I am aware of. . . . seems like it is 925 pounds or so.

[crispy critter]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

Jim,
When and where is the next SC breakfast club meeting?

Eric, No apology needed! Always good feed back from you. The only thing I might add to your ascessment of the Cole Vs the Swick is that people may need to be again reminded to realize ( you so stated) that you were compairing a 160 lyc plane (Cole) to a 100 hp non electrical (I think) Swick. Just wany the readers to realize that given the same engines the Cole is definently the lighter not heavier. Your engine packages definently shifted the equasion. Hope to see you soon? Perhaps you can make a SC breakfast club ? Your belt awaites for furthestflight if your lucky that day!

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Clip-Wing Taylorcrafts B models

Kev, The next one is Feb 13,2005 at CAE (Columbia SC) Eagle Avaition. That is one of our few Class C airspace meetings. If you are flying a non electrical (doubtfull given your distance for the time of day just call ahead or get em on a hand held on the way in. The tower guys are usually very accomodating . In looking at the Calender I am not sure why we do not have one scheduled sooner that this. Usually there help every other Sunday regardless..... I'l let you know if I hear of one sooner or changes. Thanks for the response and I'll look forward to seeing you sometime