Equivalent mileage electric

[flyguy]

"So what does our class-leading 112 MPGe9 rating tell you? It's rather good news. It means that the energy present in one gallon of gasoline (if you converted that gallon into electricity) can send the Mitsubishi i a whopping 112 miles. That's astounding. And it's all thanks to our super-efficient MiEV operating system."

The above is from a Mitsubishi electric car site. Anyone see what is wrong with the implied comparison?

Darryl

[Howard Wilson]

Re: Equivalent mileage electric

Conversion and transmission(electric) losses.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Equivalent mileage electric

I am willing to bet they didn't count the energy used from end to end. For a fair comparison you have to count the BTUs in a gallon of gas then drive the car on it with the best gas engine you can find (this car was based on a gas car originally wasn't it?). After that you take the amount of electricity you can generate with that many BTSs (it wouldn't have to be gasoline for a fair comparison since gasoline isn't a good fuel for making electricity, but it would need to be the same BTUs). Make the electricity, transmit it to the car, run it through the charging circuit and see how many miles you can drive the car on that electricity. I am betting they got 112 miles of RANGE with a full charge from the wall and a gallon of gas in the hybred version. At 112 miles the fuel tanks were empty and the batteries were dead. They didn't count the wall charge in their side of the equation and 50 miles of rqnge was the fuel and the rest was the full charge.
If it is an all electric version then they are selling snake oil. It has a 47kw motor and a 16kw battery. That means at full power it runs the battery dry in 20 minutes. Think it will go 336mph for 20 minutes? At low speed the motor is MUCH more efficient, but even at 10 mph that is 11 hours or 1455 watts per hour. Can you push even that little car at 10 mph for 11 hours on the power used by 10 light bulbs?
Hank

Liars, damned liars and car salesmen
By the way, 62 miles on a charge and 50 miles on a gallon is actually pretty good. They didn't need to lie about it.

[flyguy]

Re: Equivalent mileage electric

I think the slick trick is how they use the phrase "the energy present" in the gallon of gas, not the electrical power that can be generated from one gallon. At about 15% efficiency in an automotive engine you can get as much as 30+ miles to the gallon. If you could get the "energy present" when you burned it in an automotive engine you could get about 6.6 times 30 miles to the gallon or, almost 200. I actually had a V8 that would give 30 miles to the gallon even though that was at 60 with a good overdrive and it only had 145 hp and a VERY streamlined body.

I've been thinking on a electric powered vehicle similar to a VW dune buggy for running to the store or down to the airport. Simple jeep-open configuration using a racing type rollcage and a tubular frame. Flat windshield, cloth top, or open. Very light body. Maybe 10 or 15 mile capability. Lead acid batteries.

I was pretty impressed by the Corolla the guy on yoUtube made that would do a 12 quarter, even with the cheap heavy batteries. He did 10 sec and 120 when he put in the expensive light batteries. But I thought the cheaper version was the most impressive.

DC

[Ron Coleman]

Re: Equivalent mileage electric

None of this MPG stuff impresses me. In the old days, in the economy runs many of our 6 cylinder cars (like Studebaker) did over 100 MPG. No lie. Look it up.
I'd rather be out of gas than have a dead battery.

RonC

P.S. I have my Studebaker. Do you?

[flyguy]

Re: Equivalent mileage electric

Are you asking if I still have the 83 Pontiac Firebird that I mention above? Nope. Sold it to a good friend and his girlfriend made a mess of it. Only car I ever regretted selling afterwards.

I think the around-town-electric-super-simple machine would be an interesting project.

As for the 100 mpg competition of the yesteryears, we both know about that don't we. Ultra high tire pressure on narrow tires, maybe 35 miles per hour--I read about those tests, but it was a LONG time ago.
DC

[paulnuss]

Re: Equivalent mileage electric

The winners of the highest-mileage car classes, such as the under-200 cu in Class A Rambler American, etc., back in the Mobilgas Economy Run days of 1936-1968 would get into the 30's mpg areas for the almost 2000 miles actual highways event, with traffic, weather, etc. And at 27.9 cents per gallon, who cared? Indeed between 30 and 50 mph was the best area, with special techniques.

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Equivalent mileage electric

Back in the late sixties we drove a Plymouth Satellite that routinely gave us 28 mpg and we could get almost that out with the Chev. 283. What the difference is, all the anti smog crap we have to lug around now. Again a well tuned V-8 in the sixties would meet most of the emissions laws out there, however they wouldn't on a cold start or if a bit out of tune. We haven't really improved that much, my old 1968 Tornado would do 22 to 24 mpg, big engine and mighty big automobile, and my 95 Caddy would do 24 mpg all day while blowing the doors off everything on the road including Corvettes. Do I sound a bit jaded? You bet! L

[paulnuss]

Re: Equivalent mileage electric

Larry, I'm sure you know the American big V-8 cars of the sixties typically got way less than your averages quoted. Or was that once or twice you got that kind of miles per gallon? Our neighbor had a 390 cu in 4-bbl carb Thunderbird, and he told me he couldn't take it on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, it was too far between gas stations! ;-) My dad, on the other hand, always bought nerdy cars. We had a '59 Studebaker Lark with flathead 6. three-on-the-tree and overdrive, then later a 1963 Rambler American with OHV six-banger, three-on-the-tree and overdrive. Neither of these were cool for a car-crazy teenager to learn to drive, and later to borrow! Back then a kid in school or college couldn't afford his own car, in my neck of the woods anyway (commonly called Appalachia). Some of the better-off kids' parents had way cooler stuff, like big Dodges with 383, big Ford with 352's & 390's, even a friend Willy Fleming talked his dad into a new '63 Chevy with 409 V-8! 10-12 mpg was the norm for most of them, if that. Meanwhile, my dad liked 6-bangers and gas mileage... I remember buying a buck's worth of gas, about 3-1/2 gallons, and that had to do for the evenings driving. A lot of the older jalopies around town were more concerned with how much oil they burned in addition to the gas. I guess I was lucky to have something to drive.

[N96290]

Re: Equivalent mileage electric

My 46 BC12D shares hanger space with a 1947 Studebaker Champion. It is a 6 cylinder 3 speed w/OD and also has a hill holder. The only time I have seen close to 100 mpg is on the trailer. They have both adopted me and I am the caretaker for the next several years.

[flyguy]

Re: Equivalent mileage electric

As my airport truck I have my dad's 92 Chevy S-10 that has a camper on it. Rather amazingly it only has 40,000 miles on it. Then engine/transmission combination is pretty nice. It has a 4.3 Vortec V-6 and a 700R4 automatic with overdrive. As I may have said somewhere here before I drove it from California to Illinois one time for my brother. He overloaded it by 300 lbs but even with that we consistently averaged 25 or more MPG, several times 27 in flat country. That was running between 65 and 70. I love that engine-transmission combination. I think it is about 160 HP.

Funny thing, I have a 2004 Mustang (6) that corners like a go kart, but the truck gets as good or better gas mileage, rides smoother, and is considerably quieter (mostly road noise) than the car.

I see someone is bringing the Fiat 500 into the US now. I was in Italy when I was 18 and I can vouch that the Italians use to drive those things like maniacs. Don't think I would want to be in a crash in one though. Wonder what mileage they get. Checked it: 30/38 EPA estimate, whatever that is good for... Ran across the Abarth version, what a hoot.

Darryl

[Ron Coleman]

Re: Equivalent mileage electric

Right Flyguy...
To get over 100 mpg the cars were stripped bare, fans removed, light weight oil used insteaed of grease, ultra high pressure tires with hard rubber, every clever trick avaiable to increase gas milage. That was the point wasn't it. Optimum speed may have been as low as 10 mph. Those runs were never made in traffic. The idea wasn't to sell cars, it was to develop economy. By the way, a mistake I made in the early days was to buy 6 cylinder Studebakers instead of the V-8's. The V-8's did nearly as well as the 6's and sometimes better.

RonC

[flyguy]

Re: Equivalent mileage electric

When I first saw it, I was a kid, I thought the "modern" style Studebaker that came out in '53 (was it?) was about the most attractive car that ever rolled down the road. What was the guys name who designed it? They sure made a beautiful hot rod when spruced up. Oh yeah,Raymond Lowey (looked it up.)
DC

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Equivalent mileage electric

Gentlemen I stand by my mileage figures. My best friend in those days (late 60's) and I would take off on a Fri. nite and drive until midday Sat. in one direction then turn and come back. Just for the adventure,we were not old enough to go to the bars, that little Satellite never let us down and always amazed us with its mileage. The all ready old and used Tornado I drove for several years had 454 cubes and just loafed along at 65. Now my Oldsmobile's and Buick's never got that kind of mileage but if you ask around you will find most Caddies with the North star engine always got great performance and good mileage. The engine has been used in hotrods and been to the Indy 500 too. L