Pass it on

[jim cooper]

Re: Pass it on

The Depression of 1929 ended with the beginning of WW2. We(U.S. "Govmint") first built and sent millions of arms, ships, tanks to England and France.(Jobs!) Then, of course, the U.S. Government spent billions more to arm our own troops.(MORE Jobs!) This was followed by the G.I. Bill which gave millions of poor American G.I.'s the ability to educate themselves and get into the so called middle class. Probably the biggest social breakthrough in history. Then Eisenhower, and the interstate highway system. The list is endless.(Not to mention NASA or the internet!) Today, corporations enjoy being protected by the U.S. Government but....refuse to pay their fair share of taxes, keeping billions overseas. They employ cheap labor (40.00 per month, etc.) then send the product back to us. Through tax loopholes they screw America out of Trillions of dollars. Like sheep we not only condone it but vote for their representatives! (Most small airports in the late 40's and fiftys were operated and survived on the GI Bill) Incidentally, a job in "Human Rescources," sounds like Govmint employment or attached to same.(My Stearman was repaired in the 80's by a real Master who did Stearmans on the side. His main income was his machine shop making hard points for Navy fighters under "Govmint" contract. Don't forget....Reagan raised taxes 11 times. Under Eisenhower they were around 50%! Much higher than present! JC

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Pass it on

No, she is not a Government employee. Any company of any size at all has an HR department. They are the people who hire you, fire you and handle all of your benefits (usually not pay, that's payroll). They keep you, and the company, out of trouble with the regulators (unfortunate fact of life, but a company that breaks the regulations gets shut down)and protect you from abuse by the system. They can make your life great, or if they are so inclined, can make you more miserable than anyone except "travel". You haven't lived (or died) till you torque off the travel department.
Hank

As for whether "companies" pay enough taxes, where do you think the companies get the money to pay those taxes? They get them from YOU in the cost of the product. Doesn't matter how much tax the government gets or doesn't get from a corporation, the corporation doesn't pay a dime of it, it's a straight pass through. A handy way for the politicians to hide a tax on us. If you have a problem with shipping jobs overseas, hit it head on. THAT is the problem. Ask yourself why they move labor overseas. Fix that and the jobs come back. Have you noticed how many companies have moved call centers back to the US? You want jobs here? Refuse to buy or use foreign products and services. THAT brings jobs back home, not changing the tax structures. NO tax increase will ever effect the people you think have an unfair deal over you. Charge them more tax and they will just raise the price so YOU pay for it.
By the way, just try buying a TV made in the US. There AREN'T any.

[jim cooper]

Re: Pass it on

To be brief....Warren Buffet, one of the richest men in the U.S. said recently " I pay fewer taxes than my secretary! Thats wrong! " unquote.

[Marv]

Re: Pass it on

Asking rich politicians to vote to increase taxes for the rich is the same as asking a private pilot to vote against the flight of small aircraft, except when they are running for office.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Pass it on

To be brief....Warren Buffet, one of the richest men in the U.S. said recently " I pay fewer taxes than my secretary! Thats wrong! " unquote.

The reason Buffet pays less taxes is the way the tax structure is set up. Most of his "income" isn't "Earned" by the current definition (trust me, I went to high school with his daughter, he EARNED ever dollar he has, just not as what the IRS defines as "Earned Income"). If you TRULY want everyone to pay their "fair share" you can't do it with income tax. Income tax is a system for the politicians to manipulate the economy. It is NOT a fair or efficient system for revenue generation.
If you want a fair tax system that makes the rich pay a higher percentage of wealth (not "income") and for EVERYONE to pay a fair share you need a CONSUMPTION tax. That way the rich pay more of the burden when they buy their corporate jets, mansions and yachts, while at the same time EVERYONE pays a fair share of the tax burden.
The average person sees the "rich" as hoarding their money and not paying their fair share. What do you think they do with it? Hide it in a mattress? Money is just paper, it's value is in what you can DO with it. If you put a regressive tax structure in place, the rich will simply reduce their "income" based on whatever definition of "income" you are using. If I am rich, I want as much "goodies" as I can get. I didn't get rich by being stupid, right? If I can get more "goodies" by donating some to a politician who will vote to change the tax structure so I can have my company buy my "goodies" (I still get to use them, right? Who cares whose name is on the title) I will take a tiny salary so I pay almost no taxes. In total I am looking to get the most "goodies" for my input to the system. Without knowing it, that is what everybody does. We all try to game the system for our own maximum benefit (are you telling me you don't take every deduction available to you?). He KNOWS the system is wrong, but why shouldn't he game it too so he can get what he wants, whether that is a huge house and a private jet or transforming our economy into a socialist dictatorship. We each try to game the system to our advantage. The only way to stop this is with a tax structure that can't be gamed. If we all want our goodies, TAX THE "GOODIES", not the income! Buffet can use his economic power to buy his jet, and pay the tax, or invest the money in industry, which hires more people, who spend the money on products, and pay the taxes there! Either way, WE ALL WIN. Even Illegals end up paying the same share as the rest of us. The key is to incentivize investment HERE and not overseas. You do that by taxing the overseas product so there is no advantage to moving jobs there.
It simply AMAZES me that I picked all this up 40 years ago in an Econ class where the professor was a socialist who was trying to get us to draw the exact opposite conclusion from the data. The income tax theory DIDN'T WORK. Our government has been using that theory for over 40 years and it will NEVER work. It is NOT a revenue system, it is a political control system.
Now the idiots up in Disneyland on the Patomac think they can borrow their way into prosperity. If we raise the debt ceiling, our economic problems are fixed! Now lets raise the Blood Alcohol limit and eliminate drunk driving!
Hank

I may have gotten a low grade in that class (didn't flunk it, but really pissed off the professor) but everything I told him would happen 40 years ago has happened exactly the way I said it would. We are living the results of it now, right down to blaming the rich for all of our problems.

[Marv]

Re: Pass it on

Hank i do not thinkanyone is blaming the rich, there blaming the assholes making the tax laws and all the loopholes. I think if everyone paid a strait tax. say 10% with no loopholes, it would be fair to everyone.

[cvavon]

Re: Pass it on

Your still tying the tax to income a consumption tax is much more fair the state of Tn is sort of like that it gets its revenue from sails tax No income tax

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Pass it on

I think most of the people here are smart enough not to get sucked into the class envy trap. We have airplanes. Talk to the average Joe and he thinks if you own an airplane you MUST be rich! Of course when most people actually SEE my plane they get a good cold water splash of reality. After that the unwashed generally say "Do you actually go up in the air in that thing? What is it covered with, paper?" They aren't impressed when I say what it is covered with. They are generally terrified that the spars are wood and most think the engine came out of a VW.
Funny how fast the ones who will take a ride become converts!
Hank

[Bird]

Re: Pass it on

Well in my job I have to pass a drug test probably every 2 or 3 months, and physical as offend as anyone asks-- more stringent than any airline pilot ever had to go through-but then again when I am moving loads 2k to 10k over every1 up to 150 times a day I guess they have the right to make sure I'm not gonna screw the pooch, but it's more vision and dept perciption than anything else

[Bird]

Re: Pass it on

LOL WV you should see the people the are in WV is all I can say--it's another world!

[jim cooper]

Re: Pass it on

Gee WHIZ! I didn't know this! Michelle Bachman AND her husband of 31 years have never, REPEAT, NEVER have held a job outside government. Neither has ever worked for private enterprise! You would never think this

When you hear her rave on, especially about tax cuts , you would think just the opposite. As for owning aircraft...having flown for over 55 years I can report that MOST of the nice aircraft I have seen at local airports were somehow written off as expense. (Which of course is a tax dodge.) The small ones, the cubs, champs, t-crafts were usually owned by the "unwashed masses" like myself. I never saw someone land in a commander, or a superstar, or an MU2, etc etc. that wasn't somehow written off. (Doctors don't count as they get lots of their money from.....Medicare and other govmint programs. They ALWAYS fly nice things! JC

[jim cooper]

Re: Pass it on

About those 46% of "Bad" people who pay no taxes.....25 % of the 46% are RETIRED. The remainder are just too poor! Much of that due to the outsourcing of jobs in the past 20 years to China, India, etc. etc. The promise of NAFTA went like this..."Outsourcing of jobs will mean MORE jobs for U.S. workers!" That of course did not happen. The opposite did. As for getting out of the current mess, check out CANADA who.....refused to get involved in the two wars that cost us 3 trillion (They are not over yet) Then they imposed strict regulations on their banks dealing with leverage limitations and especially SUB PRIME mortgages! They did not write them! Today they are in VERY good financial shape. In the 90's they cut expenditures 20% across the board, including DEFENSE. They also raised taxes related to income. Today they are FAT, we are broke. Capitalism is GREAT....provided it is CAREFULLY regulated, otherwise it winds up like 2008. JC

[flyguy]

Re: Pass it on

Several years ago I retired and started studying the financial, investing, economic, and political systems. I made some financial decisions based on what I had learned that would normally look pretty far out. But even back then anyone with the time to do the research could have done the same. Everything has turned out pretty much as I thought it would when I made those decisions, and as things get worse, I commit more in the same direction.

I would give up all the profits I have made if this country could find the necessary steps to turn into a solid stable operation, and I don't mean back the way things WERE before the crash.

You can count on that not happening. We are still the richest country in the world in terms of possibilities, but we really blew it. Uncontrolled greed will do you in every time. It's been a total loss of connection with reality and any sense of values on the part of the people running the show.

Before, when I was busting my butt 10-11 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 15 years; had no idea what was going on. I suspect most people are in the same position, for various reasons.

Truth is, the system is broken, and we are so far off shore in bad water that whatever the system does can't fix it.

Bottom line is that we are in for some very interesting times.

[jim cooper]

Re: Pass it on

Repeat.... an EXCELLENT book to read about how we got here is called "The Big Short" by Mike Lewis who worked on Wall Street for a time. (Best Seller) Greed is the correct word plus....Deregulation of Wall Street. I probably mentioned this book before. It carefully explains how Wall Street led us into this mess, then got bailed out by US! Everyone likes money, and I for one would like to be rich. The "Class warfare" argument is the last refuge of those who do not really understand how the whole thing works or simply ignore facts, and instead stick to illogical beliefs. The President of The U.S. does NOT run the show. Corporations do! This was proven when the former administration bailed out the banks, disregarding completely, the public! The book I suggest opens with the following quotation: "The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted man IF he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, Without A Shadow Of A Doubt, what is laid before him". Unquote. _Leo Tolstoy, 1897. The corporate argument now is that they fear more REGULATION and so they don't invest. This argument is so transparent that it is childish! They want to do whatever they want to do and that isn't how a Democracy works. This argument is what caused 2008! JC