Education system, really?

[flyguy]

Just looking up some information on electric cars on the Internet and ran across a pretty good description of the technology that was included with the example of a home built battery powered car.

In the comments there must have been at least 25 or more (I stopped reading in disgust) comments by people suggesting that if you put generators on the wheels you could recharge the batteries as you drove and the car would run forever, or various similar schemes.

This is from the, ipod using, Internet smart, supposedly tech-savvy generation. These are the people who get to vote on the future of our country.

Sad comment on the quality of our existing "educational system."

Darryl

[magman]

Re: Education system, really?

I believe your analysis is completely unrelated.

People have abilities & aptitudes that differ among individuals.

The folks you mentioned may be GREAT doctors, accountants, dancers, bakers or firemen.

Obviously NOT Automotive Engineers !

The "educational system " does produce some outstanding alumni & dismal failures. NOT ALL THOUGH.

If some do well , why not all?

Have you thought of blaming the students?

In some systems 3/4 of the class in May was not there in September.

Many parents do not even know or care what school ( if any) their kids go to.

Were the people you refer to absent from school when & if these concepts were taught?

Public Schools do not "pick" student.

They take who comes to the door.

[flyguy]

Re: Education system, really?

I had a German born mechanic who worked on my old sports car back in the 60's. I was impressed that he could chat about physics when we got off track to the more complicated aspects of racing cars. The system over there doesn't try to give everyone a bachelor's degree in some useless subject that has nothing to do with reality.
I recently saw a survey of college graduates on TV news who couldn't get a job, and every last one of them had degrees in Poly Sci., or Ethnic Studies, or other similar subjects. Meanwhile, companies, at least out here, are begging for technical people, and having to import them to fill jobs.

I saw a program, some time ago, where the state of Oregon did a survery of schools world wide and was going to try to remodel their system after the Germans. Never could find another word about it anywhere

As for having to be an automotive engineer to understand that "perpetual motion" doesn't work, perhaps a little more general education on how the universe and our world in particular functions would be a useful goal for schools.

The points you make are accurate, but that doesn't change my judgement that it is really a problem when so many people in the richest and most endowed country in the world have no idea how the world around them works.

Finally it strikes me that I perhaps hit a sore spot with you wherein you are weary of everyone blaming the educational system. Could that be?

Darryl

[N96337]

Re: Education system, really?

Timely, and very much to the point....

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-609023

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/dirtyjobs/mike-rowe-senate-testimony.html

[flyguy]

Re: Education system, really?

Good link. Mike makes his point very well. Any country needs a foundation of people who make things function.
DC

[3Dreaming]

Re: Education system, really?

Just looking up some information on electric cars on the Internet and ran across a pretty good description of the technology that was included with the example of a home built battery powered car.

In the comments there must have been at least 25 or more (I stopped reading in disgust) comments by people suggesting that if you put generators on the wheels you could recharge the batteries as you drove and the car would run forever, or various similar schemes.

This is from the, ipod using, Internet smart, supposedly tech-savvy generation. These are the people who get to vote on the future of our country.

Sad comment on the quality of our existing "educational system."

Darryl

Even my 13 year old son knows that wouldn't work. I have 2 boys 8 and 13, both are straight A students. One of the biggest problems are the schools not teaching these kids to think. When my boys ask a simple question that I think they should know the answer to I make them figure it out for them self or look the answer up.
My wife was in a checkout line the other day behind a person that had a purchase of $1.81. The lady gave the cashier $2.01, but the cashier only put $2.00 into the register. She had to get a managers help to figure out how much change to give the lady. It is things like this that realy have to make you wonder about how our youth are being taught.
Our schools are giving our youth knowledge. Some of these kids become quite knowledgeable, but they are not teaching them how to use the knowledge. I would much rather work with someone who doesn't have as much knowledge but knows how to use what he has, than someone who is very knowledgeable with no application skills.

[magman]

Re: Education system, really?

I mistook Flyguys comment to be a sweeping indictment of the entire US Educational System.

My first thought was to write one response but probably several shorter ones may be better.

We are most likely more in agreement than not.

There are a lot of difficulties in society that are reflected in the schools.




It seems we have some excellent folks to serve on Advisory Boards here.

The "trigger you tripped " is that people often criticize the young people for not understanding

"quarter to three" or how to use a dial telephone.

Many of those doing this could not send a simple text or even turn on a SmartPhone.

There were times that not knowing the difference between a "harrow" & a " furrow " would

make you the subject of ridicule.

Tracking a deer to be able to eat dinner would have been a NECESSITY.

Times & Life Skills do change.

Knowing yesterdays skills is nowhere as important as knowing TOMORROWS.

The comment on your auto mechanic is not surprising.

You may be unaware that FAA requires all Part 147 AMT schools to include "Physics" in the curriculum.

A mechanic of any type uses the laws of physics everyday.

The comment on Perpetual Motion might well be

" With our CURRENT knowledge base it is impossible".

There were many "Experts" that stated "Man will never fly" & similar falacies.

I believe young people SHOULD be encouraged to question established concepts.


I'll stop for now.

FYI- I really DON'T care if my plumber can speak a foreign language.


If you're reading this; thank a teacher.

If you're reading this in English ; thank a veteran.

[magman]

Re: Education system, really?

You may guess that I'm one of those money-grubbing ,lazy tenure teachers that is a member of a teachers union.

However; I'm far removed from the world of "Academia".

One part of my career was @ a Part 147 AMT HIGH SCHOOL.

Students would learn welding, fabric, painting, FAR , Hyraulics etc.

ALL Vo-Tech programs are more costly than college entrance courses.

Students that attend them may be looked down on as Vo-Tech is often used as a "Dumping Ground".

When assigned a new student they were often dwscribed as " Good with his hands".

Invariably that meant;

1. Not the sharpest tool

2. He was often involved in fights.

24 kids in a welding shop armed with torches is "Interesting".


My thought is ALL graduates from High School should have some type of trade or skill.

NOT "Would you like fries".

This would enable them to finance any further career step.

If a student obtains their A & P but then becomes a WSO & Anesthiogist

is this a sucess or a failure in your opinion?

[mohawktipi]

Re: Education system, really?

There was a time when the technology was simple enough that the average user could do their own maintenance. In the fifties and sixties, most men did their own tune ups, oil changes, etc.. As technology advanced, the need for specialized knowledge advanced. It is virually impossible for the average driver, today, to do anything other than add oil or water (I'm sorry, coolant).

The problem in the educational system, as I see it, is two fold. First there is not enough effort in identifying the potential of the students. This is both the fault of the parents and the educators. Parents push their kids into fields that they think will be the most finacially rewarding. Never mind that the child may not have the apptitude or desire to be in that field. And this assumes the parents even care what their children grow up to be.

On the educational side, political correctness has taken over the instruction. They are so concerned in trying to get every student out of basic education and into college, they don't acknowledge that not everyone can succeed past the basic level. The push is to make everyone doctors, lawyers, engineers or some other such discipline. They don't encourage plumbers, electricians, mechanics etc.. These feilds have shortages even though every person in the United States has need of these services. Since we don't grow our own, we import them, then complain about illegal imigrants who come to fill them.

As we become more technology dependant, we as a society, will become less functionally capable.

[N96337]

Re: Education system, really?

Long story short.... we've reversed the system...those that do the hardest, backbreaking work get paid the least...those that enjoy the air conditioned office and push paper, get paid the most.... what's wrong with this picture??????!!!!!!!
Everyone's worried about hurting feelings and making sure that the kids have nice "fluffy warm" feelings always, and don't get prepared for the real world...or do they.... watching the news, as soon as anything happens, people are waiting for the government or "someone" else to do everything for them.....they have VERY little will to help themselves. It's sad.

[magman]

Re: Education system, really?

The last 2 posts seem related to me.

First let me state that I'm quite proud of the accomplishments of ALL of my students

& glad that I was was able to be their " first step on the ladder".

I've had "Special Needs" ( formerly Mentally Retarded ) students in my welding classes.

Some have found jobs at places such as Auto Exhaust shops where their skills with a cutting torch

enable them to earn a living & raise a family , etc.

HOWEVER; I totally disagree with placing them in a course intended to obtain the A & P rating.

Having these largely non-reading kids dealing with 337's, AD's , W & B etc is setting them up for failure.

We all do some form of choosing a career.

As TP stated this should involve school, parents & students.

Orientation to the "World of Work" should start at about 8 years of age.

Sometimes what sounds like fun to a 9 year old is anything but when you do it for a living.

Folks working on restoring a T may consider it an enjoyable process.

This & changing an Oil Cooler in Minot, ND in Jan or a tire during near blizzard conditions are all part of the same career.

WHY would someone CHOOSE the "hardest, back breaking work"?

If you do it because you like a challenge ; so be it.

If the excitement wears off you may find the door swings both ways.

[magman]

Re: Education system, really?

A little explanation on "CHOOSE".

Most of us have had JOBS that we despised.

This is different than a CAREER.

Often people stay with a miserable job & go to woirk & complain about it every day.

The reasons WHY?

1. PAY is good.

2. I don't want to RELOCATE. ( My spouse will leave me if I do)

3. Going back to school @ night really cuts into my time.

4. I'm up to number 352 on the SENIORITY list.


Switching jobs often entails a pay cut that may take years to make up.

You usually start at the bottom of a new career regardless of what you did previously.

[jim cooper]

Re: Education system, really?

my wife taught for 33 years. She liked to teach and liked the kids. She has often stated that the PARENTS were not involved enough. That is......checking home work to make sure it was done and done correctly. Didn't seem to care. Or...if the child misbehaved, the parent, called to the school, defended the child! (this sure as hell didn't happen in my day!) She also says many of the parents were poor, alcoholic and- or drug addicted. So far, none of you has mentioned the childrens PARENTS and their influence! Any comments?

[partyofone]

Re: Education system, really?

I'll comment.

First to Magman, I hear what you're saying about the difference between and job and a career. The problem I have right now is that I have a career as a music teacher in a public school that is going to end this year after 15 years due to budget constraints and program cuts. I received a furlough notice last week. So, at age 36, I'll be looking for a new job or possible career and working to support my wife and 3 little girls.

To Jim, your wife is right on. Some parents don't support their children and blame the schools for their problems.

Finally, I caution those who blame the schools first. You have to remember that everyone learns differently. Teaching styles have to be modified to meet the needs of everyone. In a class of 25 students, that takes a lot of work and sometimes kids just don't get it. Second, background knowledge comes into play with the students. I am a trained musician, but I can fix plumbing or hammer a nail, or build something from scratch because I had those opportunities as a child and young adult. I might even go out on a limb and say that I know more about restoring airplanes than a lot of people simply because I paid attention and listened when Dad said something or showed it to me.

If you truly want to fix education, let educators make the decisions, NOT politicians!

[avenger1949]

Re: Education system, really?

I teach TKD here in Wichita and have for 30 years and get parents all the time coming in and wanting me to straighten out their child. Johnny is running a muck, won't listen, doesn't do as he is told and is out running around all the time. So I ask... how old is John.... oh is is 6 years old.....You know sometime you just have to be a parent. I have the kids for 3 hours a week and a parent has them for a lot more. Martial arts can do a lot but teaching starts at home. OUr education system does have a bunch of problems but for one of the richest countries in the world our rating is one of the lowest. I wish there was a good answer but I believe it starts at home.