A fun day was had by all

[flyguy]

I am a loss as to what introductory comment to make here--

http://g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/exclusives/64615/OFASTS-Gun-Apocalypse.html

DC

[jim cooper]

Re: A fun day was had by all

could be Palin kicking off her Prez-I-dential run!

[Larry Lyons]

Re: A fun day was had by all

I think it is about time we have someone who kicks a** and takes names. This pussy footing around has gotten us in to trouble since the early 1900's. My opinion, I know. I am the type that will always ask forgiveness rather then permission. Thats just me. L

PS: I know that she is probably unelectable but I still like her plain talk.

[jim cooper]

Re: A fun day was had by all

Andrew J. Bacevich, Professor at Boston University, former combat officer in Vietnam, retired Bird Col. has an interesting book on people who like to "kick**** and jump into action without thinking things through (as in Iraq) He lost his son there, a combat first lieutenant. One book he wrote is called "The limits of Power." Isn't it interesting that those who have served on the front lines are always more cautious about warfare than those who stayed home! JC

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: A fun day was had by all

Jim, you say it is interesting that those who have served on the front lines are always more cautious about warfare than those who stayed home, and I agree completely. Those of us who have put our lives on the line ARE more cautious than the ones who haven't, BUT, of all those I know personally, we are also willing and READY to put it on the line again, once our cautious evaluation shows force is actually needed.
I had FIRST HAND information on what was and was not in Iraq. Not the C**P that was put out in the media. Iraq was NOT the war that shouldn't have been fought. (We WON that war, and the politicians screwed up the "Nation Building")
We found and destroyed PILES of WMDs (defined prior to the war as Chemical, Biological or Nuclear materials that can be weaponized, not "Atomic Bombs"). It was AFTER the materials were disposed of that the media decided that it wasn't a Bio weapon if it might have another use (even if we did find it stored in mortar rounds) and it was NO LONGER considered a Chemical weapon (because it was recovered in two parts and hadn't been combined yet....which is done just before you put the two parts together and into the breach of an artillery piece) and since the reporters were not allowed to OPEN THE CONTAINERS containing the nuclear material (that was shipped from Iraq after the war, some from the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center, a total of over 500 TONS of low grade Yellow Cake) then they report that it must not have existed. You can make any claim you want if you are a reporter who gets to change the definition of a weapon AFTER THE FACT, but in my opinion (and that is all this is) if you have a biological agent stored in a mortar round by a combat unit, THAT MAKES IT A WEAPON, if you have a set of binary chemical compounds that when combined make Yellow Rain, stored in an artillery position, in containers designed for insertion into an artillery round, next to an artillery piece, THAT MAKES IT A WEAPON, and just because you have 500 Tons of Yellow cake, that can't be refined into Faisal material for an atomic bomb by Iraq it is STILL A WEAPON if it is dumped into your neighborhood.
I feel for Col. Bacevich and his loss. I have been there, but I think his judgment on the subject of the Iraq war may be shaded by the horrific nature of his personal loss. I don't think we are ever going to agree on the Iraq war. Heck, we can't even ever agree on when it ended! I just don't understand how any of this relates to this thread. I hate war and killing, but I LIKE guns and shooting. Automatic weapons are a BLAST! Just because it "can" be used for evil, doesn't make IT evil.
Hank

We still agree on Taylorcrafts, right? Some day we need to sit down over a beer and make a list of what we AGREE on. It IS a long list!

[mohawktipi]

Re: A fun day was had by all

Automatic weapons are a BLAST! Just because it "can" be used for evil, doesn't make IT evil.

Hank, thanks for bringing this up. I have had this discussion with many "gun control advocates." A gun has never killed or wounded a person. A gun is an inanimate object that just lays around until some jerk decides to use it to their advantage. Used properly, a number 2 pencil can be used to kill.

A person weilding a gun (using it as a tool) to commit a crime should be locked up for life (no parole). A person that kills (using a gun) should get death.

Oh yeah, Taylorcrafts are the most fun.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: A fun day was had by all

Wouldn't it be great if we could put ALL of the leaders on a field in pencil platoons and let them go at it? The rest of us could go sport shooting till they are done, and then ignore what they decided (personally I can never hit an animal, but am a dead shot on a target with the same gun. I don't worry about what it means, I just like to shoot.)
Hank

[lfries]

Re: A fun day was had by all

Wouldn't it be great if JC quit looking to Bash Bush on the forum. I'm not even smart enough to understand the catalayst here.

[jim cooper]

Re: A fun day was had by all

Its important to read. Don't just watch T.V.! Russia was and maybe is a far greater threat than Iraq ever was. We contained them for many many years. The weapon inspectors were not allowed to finish their job in Iraq. People like Wofowitz and Pearl wanted to attack Iraq long before Bush finally did it. The war in Iraq cost us dearly in lives and LOTS of money (that we borrowed from China.) We are still paying, and will for years to come. When someone mentions inside sources I'm always interested especially if its published and is written by someone who was THERE.JC

[flyguy]

Re: A fun day was had by all

Hank,
Can you give me some kind of reference that I can look up on the yellow cake found in Iraq? Somehow that slipped right by me. (hey it is my thread so I can go off topic if I want, Right? LOL.)
Thanks
DC

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: A fun day was had by all

Not going there for the "direct" info (I wasn't allowed to keep any of the origianl data or reports we wrote from it anyway), but I will give you links to CNN, MSNBC and Truth or Fiction who reported on it. There have been several groups who have been claiming this is all made up, but we sure as H**L paid a LOT to transport SOMETHING incredibly dense from Iraq. I can't see that much security needed for lead ore!
I did part of the cost analysis investigating the Halliburton Iraq war support contract and there were a LOT of things that happened that didn't make the press. I am frankly surprised that there were so many reports on the transport of the nuke material. Remember, this was NOT material for a bomb. A lot of people didn't get it that you could NOT make a bomb with this stuff, but you COULD make a real mess. It is also VERY valuable to refine for fuel rods and Nuke medicine. I heard lots of reports that the reports were fake because you couldn't make a bomb from it, that was not the point. You could put it IN a conventional bomb and make it a terror weapon of mass destruction.

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-07/us/iraq.uranium_1_yellowcake-uranium-cameco?_s=PM:US

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/u/uraniumyellowcake.htm

The US really did a LOT of good in Iraq, and we got nearly nothing for it (not that we expected a return for our "investment"). We did NOT get their oil, or their art treasures, or even the friendship of the majority of people. We did what we always do as Americans. We gave a lot of blood and treasure of OURS to try and better other peoples lives. Maybe we succeeded, and maybe we didn't. I just hope we never become so hardened that we stop trying to make the world a better place.
Hank

[flyguy]

Re: A fun day was had by all

Humm very interesting. Thanks for the references.

Makes me wonder why Saddam would want more yellow cake if he wasn't doing anything since 1991 with the 500 tons he had already?

Ah yes, is there anything one can trust/believe about anything that is said anywhere by anyone.

Definitely ballsy keeping a lid on the 500 tons and tolerating the criticism.

DC

[jim cooper]

Re: A fun day was had by all

I have GREAT respect for the military of the U.S. I realize, having been an enlisted Air Force person for 4 years, that obtaining the rank of General in any service is hard to do.....(although politics enters the equation after Major.) I am especially impressed by combat veterans. One of my favorites is Anthony Zinni who rose to 4 star rank as a Marine combat soldier. VERY well educated and an authority on the middle east (he served there for years.) He was an outspoken critic of the Iraq war and joined 6 other General Officers writing about the poor conduct of the war, Rumsfeld's many mistakes, Bremers follys, the disapperance of BILLIONS of dollars, (U.S. Taxpayers) still unaccounted for, and on and on. I am SURE that Zinni and the others, including Hans Blix (Doctorate in International Law) had and have today, a VERY clear picture of what went on concerning yellow cake, "aluminum tubes" and "Mushroom clouds and smoking guns" as "Condi" Rice put it. ( she was quite well versed on Russia but like Bush and Cheney, far from expert on the Middle East.) If you have read or heard Zinni speak, you immed. perceive that he is a no nonsense, tough, very bright individual who really knows the Middle East and its complex religious and tribal history. If the United States were, in 2003, determined to bring" Democracy" to a country, then it should have started with North Korea which had starved over a million people to death and was and is now a far greater threat than Iraq ever was. If you have a chance look up Zinni and see what he thinks. I was not there. He WAS! With El Sader (spelling?) having returned to Iraq from IRAN, its anybodys guess what will happen. It sure won't be Democratic! JC