Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

[taylorcraftbc65]

Hi folks,
After lightning striking the ONLY cell tower in the northern half of Hudspeth County, knocking it out for almost a month, I'm back online today.
Sorry for my infrequent presence here on the site, but even before the lightning strike, I have been part of a team of people who are building an ultralight replica of the the L-2 to life. I am in the process of welding up the fuselage now, and it should take to the skies in about two months, powered by a flat, two cylinder, four stroke engine, that will make it part 103 legal.
I'm not trying to get free advertising here, I'm just letting everyone know why I have been scarce around here lately.
I'm flying the Taylorcraft, and every time that I fly her, I love the way she flies even more. Brie

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

welcome back Brie , sounds like a great project....

[VictorBravo]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

I have been part of a team of people who are building an ultralight replica of the the L-2 to life.
part 103 legal.

Brie, please be VERY careful with that. There are several factors going against you, that you have to incorporate solutions to into your project.

First, it is very very difficult to make a conventional airplane with conventional materials light enough to meet 103 under any circumstances. Professional engineers have had an awful time doing it, and have had to make many compromises they didn't want to make.

Second, you have some very harsh conditions in W. TX that will put more stress on the airplane than if you're just loafing along on the beach in a soft marine airmass. Thermals have taken a LOT of ultralights out of the air where you and I live.

Third, a four stroke engine is wonderful in many airplanes, but an ultralight is one of the few places where that extra weight savings of a 2 stroke versus the same power in a 4 stroke are really worthwhile. Because you can use that weight savings to build a safer, stronger airframe. Those little Simonini 2 strokes are developing a strong reputation in the paramotor world that you might want to take a second look at. Another 10 pounds worth of spar, or longeron, or wing strut, may save your bacon in a beautiful West Texas dust devil.

For what it may be worth, your application is probably the poster child for the new "graphlite" carbon spar cap material. This is a pulltruded material developed for the V-22 Osprey blades. The stuff works miracles. You can have a spar cap that is 1/3 the weight of metal or wood and is 3 times stronger. And it is easier to work with than most other composite mat'ls. Please take my suggestion and simply look into it... it could make a huge difference in safety.

Look at Jim Marske's website (the flying wing glider guru who has "developed" the use of this material for UL spars). If you are serious about the baby L-2, go to his workshop in Ohio and learn how to build spars using this material. Marske is a highly respected individual who has the engineering degree and the field-proven experience in this stuff. You will not be sorry you took my suggestion.

I apologize for coming on so strong, two good friends of mine were just lost in a Lancair crash here in Los Angeles just over a week ago. The owner of the airplane had me "deputized" as a card carrying chaplain so I could do their wedding ceremony. Four weeks to the day after that, I had to deliver a eulogy for him. Although it was not a structural issue that crashed the Lancair, we all have to pay a lot more attention to safety and we have to watch out for each other wherever we can.

So congratulations Brie, you're the first recipient of what will be many many intense safety lectures from me

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

Thanks Forrest. The reason that we chose the L-2 instead of one of the side by side models, is because we will have extra long seat tracks that are very finely adjustable to set the W&B for different pilots in the same plane.
That way, if there are several pilots that all fly the same plane, they could each do a W&B on the plane, and place marks on the floor as to where the seat should be for each of them. Brie

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

Bill,
I have no problem with you giving me a safety briefing, that just shows how much we need to be careful about what we are doing up in the sky.
I have the utmost respect for Mr. Marske, I have a set of plans for the Poineer II-D sailplane. Seventeen years ago, I had several phone conversations with him on the probability of building it with Carbon fiber spars.
The engine that we are looking at to power the replica with is the 2A042 military surplus genset engine that was designed by Teledyne Continental. It has a 1,500 hour TBO, and can be operated on 60 octane fuel. There are a bunch of ultralight pilots who are flying ships behind the motor right now, with no in flight failures reported. The engine weighs 79 pounds all up, and after being modified for aviation use, develops 27HP at sea level.
That might not sound like much, but the original Aeronca C-2's were powered by less power, and weighed more. The fuselage for this weighs 24 pounds before covering, and is constructed from thin wall 4130 tubing.
I am not going to use this site for any further "bragging" about the design, so if anyone wants to talk about it, then E-mail me. Brie

[VictorBravo]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

http://www.simonini-flying.com/mini2plus_eng.htm

26 HP (about the same as the Continental)
86 KG of thrust (about 200 pounds of thrust)
18.3 KG weight RTF (about half of the Continental)

Comes with gear reduction to swing a real propeller
4 liters/hour fuel burn at about 65-67% power
Comes with alternator and electric start

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

hmmmm very interesting, perhaps we need that on the Afford-A-Plane .
Thank you Bill for the great input as always.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

While you're at it Forrest, IMHO the Affordaplane could also use an actual spar...

(I looked as someone's open wing photos and did not see a spar, only LE and TE tubes... spooky. )

The Simonini engines apparently are emerging as the top choice for the powered parachutes. They make several sizes. There's one that appears to make 44 HP and is still less weight than the Continental generator motor.

Yes 2 strokes have some big issues but there are certain times where it is a good compromise. Leaving another 20 or 30 pounds (10%+ of the a/c empty weight) available for real structure... is definitely one of those times.

Mr. Jarrett, kind sir, am I too far off base here?

[flylo]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

If you end up needing more power I have a CompactRadial MZ201 on my Phantom. It's 45 HP pull & elect start. It only turns 4700 RPM. & only weighs 69# complete wirh exhaust,starter battery & reduction unit & single Tilloston pumper carb. Burns under 2.5 gal/hr. It's a de-tuned Mz202 which is the same engine with dual carbs cooling fan 60 HP & 6500 RPMs.Both are 626ccs. Made in Canada with a 12 year track record. Here's the link www.compactradialengines.com/engines . Should last a long time turning 4700 RPMs.

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

Good options for some folks guys, but the people that we are building this Ultralight for, are folks that don't have a couple of grand for a motor, and many of them are, like me, tired of showing off their piloting skills by not damaging the aircraft while landing it in some VERY "interesting" places when the two stroke quit.
The wing that we are going to use, is the same one that is used on the Phantom, which is aerobatic capable. I used to do airshow routenes in one back in the mid to late eighties. Brie

[flylo]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

1/2 VW might be a good choice too.We have a Phantom running one here burning less than 2 GPH.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

Two topics.
1) lack of spars. Well, actually my first real exposure to a "spar-less" design was a set of plans I bought for a Graham Lee Nieuport 11. First look scared the CR*P out of me. Then I did a little "ciphering", and guess what? For the loads the ultralights see you CAN design a wing so all the bending loads can be carried by the leading and trailing edge! I still have my Nieuport plans and fully plan to build one some day. Of course before he died, Graham said I had changed the design so much he wouldn't call it a GL Nieuport any more, but that is part of being in the Homebuilt community. So as to a lack of a "real" spar, it CAN be done with no problems. If you aren't up to the "ciphering", just pick a design with a lot of copies flying, and not crashing.

2) Two strokes make a lot of power for a little weight. Folks I have talked to who do RELIGIOUS maintenance like them (but occasionally land very quiet, the engine that is, not the pilot, who seems to be making a LOT of noise). I know some people claim they are reliable and safe, but the people I have actually talked to who flew them (note the PAST tense) were known to actually tear them off their planes and chuck them in a river in the midwest. They are flying VW engines now for years with incredible reliability. The other engine i have been getting direct good reports on is the Big Twin from Valley Engineering. I am waiting for them to let me do a set of installation drawings for it that I can use to fit it up to a Nieuport.

Bottom line. Leading and trailing edge spars are OK if designed right. I personally won't fly behind a two stroke. I am not willing to take the risk with my soft pink parts yet. The VW (with all 4 tubes firing, some interesting vibration problems with the 2 cylinder versions and a reduction drive) is a good, reliable, inexpensive engine for light homebuilts.
Just my opinions.
Hank
Any other guys in the Tribe into WW-I replicas? I know there are a bunch of us who love the Pietenpols.

While you're at it Forrest, IMHO the Affordaplane could also use an actual spar...

(I looked as someone's open wing photos and did not see a spar, only LE and TE tubes... spooky. )

The Simonini engines apparently are emerging as the top choice for the powered parachutes. They make several sizes. There's one that appears to make 44 HP and is still less weight than the Continental generator motor.

Yes 2 strokes have some big issues but there are certain times where it is a good compromise. Leaving another 20 or 30 pounds (10%+ of the a/c empty weight) available for real structure... is definitely one of those times.

Mr. Jarrett, kind sir, am I too far off base here?

[Howard Wilson]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

Two topics.

Hank
Any other guys in the Tribe into WW-I replicas? I know there are a bunch of us who love the Pietenpols.

If you want to get sucked into a whole new flying addiction: Check out (kcdawnpatrol.org). If you click on their youtube vids you can see and hear that Big Twin. Sounds very cool.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

Dick and Sharron Starks are good friends (as well as Lemons, Glaeser, Mark Pierce, Marvin S. and Glenn Huff- the original group from the Dawn Patrol). Of course I don't think any of them have ever met anyone they didn't consider a good friend.
I used to drive all the way from Virginia Beach VA every year to Kansas City for the fly-in. It was an annual high light in my life. It's a hard call as to whether the Tribe or the Patrol has found the ultimate formula for flying friendships. You guys really should check out the site (or better yet, read one of Dick's books. You will laugh till you cry or wet your pants.)
I have been doing WW-I replica designs for several years now if anyone is interested. The long pole in the tent for new designs is ALWAYS the engine! The Albatros design has been redone several times because the engine didn't work out.
Dick Starks is pretty much the Forrest Barber of WW-I replicas.
Hank

[VictorBravo]

Re: Life in the "boonies" of extreme west Texas

The long pole in the tent for new designs is ALWAYS the engine!

That is definitely the sound bite of the decade for those of us unwashed amateur hackers who sketch and scheme on small low powered airplanes! Thanks for the 400 level course on vehicle design in one sentence

I understand 2 strokes are less reliable despite the rampant brochuremanship by the mfr's. However I am aware of many 2 stroke desert motorcycle riders who swear by their reliability (Yes I know the duty cycle is different on a bike than an airplane).

The one thing that sticks in my craw is the idea that my life is still in better hands with a safe airframe structure and a risky engine, than with a safe engine and a risky airframe. With a 254 pound limit that is a choice that often has to be made.

Hank you outrank me 100-1 on the "ciphering", but I do suspect that designing a really safe 254 pound airframe with sheet metal and pop rivets (or tube and fabric or straight wood and fabric) is very difficult (even for you) if you need to use 90+ pounds of that weight for the engine. The added strength and stiffness of the newer carbon rods would allow a large extra structural margin at those weights.

Alternatively, if you are doing a traditional UL tube and rivet airframe, I do think that that extra 30 or so pounds worth of weight should really be in the structure than the engine. A forced landing because a bad engine is a lot more survivable than a forced landing from a bad airframe.

In order to make an end run around this paradox, and achieve a safe/cheap pop rivet, wood or tube and fabric 254 pound ultralight with a 4-hole VW engine... I suspect that you will have to hit the "clever" button pretty hard several times and start chopping off large parts of the airplane, like 3/4 of the fuselage and 3/4 of the tail and 90% of the landing gear...

Hank, are you familiar with the work of Al Backstrom?