need some help on airport regs

[swoeric]

The debate has come up several time about landing on grass on the airport property.

There is an airport I sued to fly out of that had a grass strip that wasnt the best, but for a light plane i preferred it to the asphalt. The airport manager decided to tell the tower that nobody can land there anymore. Now that i'm looking at more expensive tires this is important to me and others.

I have heard or read discussions on this many times but is there a clear cut rule?

Is it an actionable offense?

What authority to inflect pain do airport managers have?

[barnstmr]

Re: need some help on airport regs

Is it on the sectional as a Circled "R"? meaning Private non public use? Airports marked otherwise are considered public use by the FAA.

[barnstmr]

Re: need some help on airport regs

I just re-read your question. Are you saying it is a grass runway on a public "controlled" airport? Different story. The airport property owner may close a runway, but should mark with "X" at each end. There is nothing to say he is required to provide upkeep on a runway to keep it open. And at a controlled airport, the pilot must heed the instructions of the tower.

[Pearson]

Re: need some help on airport regs

Eric,

Like you, I wanted to land on the grass along side the runway at my home base airport. But before landing on the grass I was concerned about how rough it might be. So I spoke to the airport manager to ask him if it would be ok to land on some grass somewhere on the airport, and if so, where would be the best place. He directed me to a section along side the runway between two turn off taxiways.

But I didn't have to campaign to get his permission because he knows that taildraggers like grass. I guess it depends on your relationship with your manager, but you might try finding out if he is familiar with the tendency of taildraggers to swap ends on landing and how using a grass runway helps avoid that from happening. If he is aware of this trait of all taildraggers, you might point out that from a safety and operational standpoint it just makes sense to let taildraggers land on the grass. Another angle might be to find out what his reservation is to giving permission. If he is worried about liability, I would go back to the argument that it is safer for a taildragger to land on grass than pavement. If he is just worried about killing the grass, or making a mud puddle, figure out a way to solve his concern. If he has been getting noise complaints from residents off the end of the grass runway, maybe you could work with him to avoid flying over that area. Maybe you could get permission to land in the grass alongside the paved runway.

All of the above will work if he is just uninformed. If on the other hand, he knows full well about the characteristics of taildraggers and still doesn't want you landing in the grass, you are going to have problems convincing him to give permission. Now you are dealing with an ego/power trip and that is a tough nut to crack. It might help establish a rapport if you took him for a ride. If you could do it on a day when there were crosswinds, it might help show him why landing on grass is better.

I am sure the level of power the airport manager has is different at each airport. At my home field the manager is the main man, the big boss daddy. What he says goes. Thankfully he is an intelligent guy and lets me land in the grass. I hope your guy is just as intelligent.

[astjp2]

Re: need some help on airport regs

Is the tower 24 hours? I have used the grass anywhere I wanted because my airport becomes a class E, after the tower closes. Really freak them out and call the tower telling them you are going to land on the highway at the local 7-11 to get gas or refuse to pay the local airport a landing fee.!!!! Makes life intersting. Tim

[Doc]

Re: need some help on airport regs

Like most things learned in the sandbox when we were very small, it is usually a matter of social interaction and being a "Good Neighbor". Horseshoe Bay (TX) airport (non-towered) has high-end clients who fly their high-end talidraggers there...the airport manager maintains a grass strip between two taxi strips on the east side of the runway....he sells a lot of gas and gets favorable reviews from the Austin $$$ set. San Marcos TX) airport (towered) seems to be favorably considering a request for a grass runway...the city needs to fund the prep work. Sometimes attending a City Council or Airport Management meeting works wonders. Remember...if you are not sitting at the table, you are probably on the menu. Doc