AD'd Do apply to experimental!

[astjp2]

I found this interesting, AD's do apply to experimental aircraft unless otherwise noted in the AD. So much for going experimental....Tim

[astjp2]

Re: AD'd Do apply to experimental!

Wow, not one comment from the peanut gallery? Its amazing on how many comments will come about trivial crap or how to save a buck by using unapproved methods on here, but when it comes to safety of flight, not many takers. I had an A&P tell me tonight that AD's do not apply to experimental products and "the FAA can't do that" He also said that you don't have to even look for AD's on experimental aircraft. I sent him a copy of the service bulletin and told him to read para. 8 and will wait to see what he says tomarrow.

[avenger1949]

Re: AD'd Do apply to experimental!

Ok I will bite, so reading para 8 I take it to mean if you make a Taylorcraft exp the AD's still apply but if I put Taylorcraft struts for instance on a different plane in the exp. class then the AD dies. As I read it all AD's apply to the original type and class so a strut AD on a taylorcraft will always be an AD on a Taylorcraft no matter what it becomes. So the AD wouldn't apply if I put them on a MiniMax ELSA. Please keep in mind I have no strong feeling on my statements one way or the other and am only opening it up to dicussion on the subject. So don't killl me.....lol

[magman]

Re: AD'd Do apply to experimental!

That " Service Bulletin" comment in #2 should actually be "Advisory Circular".

My take is there are 2 types of owners:

1. Those that get involved with the maintenance aspects of their aircraft.

2. Those that pay others to "take care of it".

I think the majority of folks on this forum are in Category #1.

The MAJORITY of tasks on an aircraft can be accomplished by the owner.

ALL of them can be be done IF you establish a relationship with an A & P.

Record Keeping is one of the tasks that an owner should be able to perform.


While aggravating; the typical AD is generally a rather small item such as a placard or inspection.

Very few actually REQUIRE replacement of major components that are in "good " condition.

An example is Wing Struts on Pipers ( since 1977) & Taylorcrafts can be inspected to assure defects do not exist.

In recent years the FAA appears to be accepting input from Type Clubs & others PRIOR to issuance of an AD.

However; you have to be aware of pending AD's by checking the Federal Register.


The EXPERIMENTAL folks are not ignored either.

A friend is build a Zenith 601 (?) .

Several of this type have crashed.

While nearing completion he is notified a a rather large modification to the wing structure.

Also that FAA's policy is to not issue the Airworthiness Certificate until the "beef-up" is accomplished.

[N5002M]

Re: AD'd Do apply to experimental!

I'll jump too!!! and feel free to bite my head off. The lack of response is probably due to the confusion. I would have to assume the original post meant taking a TC'd Taylorcraft and doing enough modifications to get the FAA to issue an Experimental certificate. First off, have you actually talked to the feds about this? I have and it's no small undertaking!!! It's much cheaper to build a Zeneith STOL. Now in regards to AD's, I believe what your friendly A&P was referring to, "you don't even have to look for AD's.." was the fact the FAA doesn't issue AD's for experimental aircraft ie: airframes. Try a search in ATP Navigator for Vans Aircraft or Skyfox....you won't find anything...thats what the A&P meant. Obviously, the certified engines (Bombardier Rotax) used on experimental aircraft can and indeed have applicable AD's or props for that matter. If you bolt on a Sensenich or Hartzell..you are legally bound to comply with the AD's. Experimental airframe manufacturers issue SB's, Saftey Alerts and Change Notices to deal with specific mechanical and structural issues.

Now, I am a bit confused over the "so much for going experimental" comment that started this all. The T-Craft is light on AD's if you ask me. Aside from the reoccuring strut AD...what's the big deal? You won't get much sympathy from Piper owners I'm afraid!! I mean, being able to change things on the aircraft without having to get field approvals and buying overpriced STC's is certainly a reason to go experimental (and I am heading that direction - hence why I've been researching Experimental aircraft regulations) but to side step AD's...not sure that's a reason in itself to go that direction.

Finally...I can't believe I wrote all this crap. I sound like a retired judge. I'm the last person that should be talking legal BS. I'm the guy that writes about 'trivial crap' like glueing in brake linings...gasp!!! horrer!!! Paragraph 7.1.3 of sub-paragraph c, note IIV of Field Document 8 revision 5.1.9 says I'll go to hell for gluing in linings....LOL.

[waltermrich]

Re: AD'd Do apply to experimental!

Personally I think it is very important that information is shared on this web site, some folks might not agree always but the more information the better, I agree with magman and im the type 1 person who likes to follow the regs,and finds it easy to get an A&P as a buddy but will admit that i do not always follow the regs to the letter. I think its utterly foolish not to use the resourses of the avaition estabilisment ,some things might be tough but we have a lot of freedom with avaition here , keep the info flowing pass the good news

[astjp2]

Re: AD'd Do apply to experimental!

I am not wanting to bite anyone's head off. It was fustrating that this topic sat for a week and not a single comment. My appologies if anyone took it that way. I just feel like that this is one of the important things that owners/pilots should be aware of because if there is a problem, it's the pilot that can get violated for flying an airplane that is not in conformance. Most mechanics are not aware of the clarification and applicability. Tim

[N5002M]

Re: AD'd Do apply to experimental!

Tim,

Just curious....what were you planning to do to your T-Craft to make it experimental. Also..I mentioned earlier if you had talked to the feds. I'd like to know if there is parity in the conversations we had with those guys.

BTW: I was only kidding about "biting heads off"...thats my humor..sorry.

Chris

[astjp2]

Re: AD'd Do apply to experimental!

I cannot convert to experimental, if it starts out certified, it has to stay certified. I need to invest in some big STC's to put in an O-200-8, disc brakes, mufflers, etc. This can happen once I get it back from alaska. I do not want to change gross weight so the engine stc with help from Terry should be able to be performed. Its only time and money. I started this topic because I had heard lots of comments about going experimental, if the airframe is from a certified aircraft, the FAA will not convert it. You can wind up with a very expensive lawn ornament if you modify it to the point that it cant be returned to certified. Tim

[T.Taylor]

Re: AD'd Do apply to experimental!

Most mechanics are not aware of the clarification and applicability. Tim

I am an A&P and no body asked me during your investigation of mechanics??

[astjp2]

Re: AD'd Do apply to experimental!

Did you know about the changes? Were you even aware that AD's apply to experimentals? Do you do an AD search when you do a condition inspection? Tim

I am an A&P and no body asked me during your investigation of mechanics??

[flyguy]

Re: AD'd Do apply to experimental!

In my innocence, or ignorance, I have thought that one could contact the FAA and get approval to test a modification or addition of a developmental prototype item on an aircraft as experimental test (that isn't proper name, but it is the idea.)

As an example I suspect the C-150 that was flown to get the auto fuel approval was operated as experimental "test."

Probably is a temporary permit, but you get my point.

There are several variations (classes) as I remember without looking it up again. Another one is experimental exhibition or display such as used for the Nanchang CJ6 military trainer.

Ect., Ect. ad infinatum

Darryl

P.S. Ah, just skip this and read "What is an Experimental" shown below.

[T.Taylor]

Re: AD'd Do apply to experimental!

Did you know about the changes? Were you even aware that AD's apply to experimentals? Do you do an AD search when you do a condition inspection? Tim

Hi Tim, I always check for AD's due, airframe, engine, accessories, I have stood before an NTSB Investigation Board, it lasted probably 25 minutes, seemed like hours if not days, I had signed off a P-38 that I was to be type rated in, a book writer got in it and ran it out of fuel,killed him and destroyed the plane, 4 days later, I was told to report to Seattle, WA. for a hearing, as an aircraft mechanic, it changed the way I view "sign-off's", it doesn't matter what aircraft it is, T.

[Larry Lyons]

Re: AD'd Do apply to experimental!

Serves you right; for not kicking that writers ass instead of letting him fly it! :-) L