Flaps?

[blue_ridge]

Anyone have experience using a Taylorcraft with flaps for backcountry or off airport flying?

Were the flaps a worthwhile improvement in performance, or landing target consistency?

[ericvap]

Re: Flaps?

I have a F21 and it weighs 1500lbs and I can land it in about 300 ft? How much shorter do you think the flaps would help that? This is no Learjet..
I have no idea why you would need flaps. If I use the standard rule of thumb for a fixed wing at zero flap landing add 33% I guess I could then do it in 200 ft???
If I want flaps,retract gear,etc I would get another plane, but I do have another plane with all that very expensive stuff it lands in about 1500 ft on a good day..... so I dont know if that helped any but with any wind all the numbers go way down, my shortest in the F21 is about 75 ft in 20 kts wind.

[jack]

Re: Flaps?

When I lived in Homer, Ak one of the pilots had a F-19 that had flaps. It was on floats and the flaps helped it get off in a much shorter run.

[Pearson]

Re: Flaps?

I would invest in the Vortex Generators before I bothered with flaps. Sealing up the gaps at each end of the ailerons would also help.

[ericvap]

Re: Flaps?

I forgot about the VG's, that would be great. Here is the guys that did the ones on my 340. Says it reduces stall 5mph on a Taylorcraft for $595 plus install.
http://www.microaero.com/index.html Micro Aero in WA.

[astjp2]

Re: Flaps?

The VG's only lowered stall about 2 mph, but the low speed control would feel much better, not as sluggish. Tim

[jim cooper]

Re: Flaps?

Try to imagine, since 1939 say, where T Crafts have been flown without benefit of flaps! (successfully.) If you can slip it well, flaps are of no real value in my very humble estimation. Sort of like the monkey and the typewriter. JC

[shawn coleman]

Re: Flaps?

I have an F-22 to my knowledge the only aircraft in the Taylorcraft line to have flaps, previous to that I had an F 19 both aircraft had vortex generators, as far as the flaps go there three position to 30° and that 30° they probably give you 4 miles an hour on the bottom end which still puts me at around 39 or 40 with the F-22 but with the f 19 I could still achieve 36 or 37 on the low-end. But I suppose this all equates obviously to aircraft weight you cannot put 40 gallons of gas in a F 19 but you can in an F-22.

I will say that I enjoy the flaps for popping aircraft off the ground I think I probably gained 50 to hundred feet by doing that but it is just mostly a lot of fun I can't say that the drag produced by 30° of flaps is worth having because as stated before all the other models can fall just as fast as or faster without flaps . But it does change the angle of the nose to a more comfortable position. And also it affords you the ability to be a lot more sloppy on your approach since it does tend to help kill the Taylorcraft float effect which again is really nice but not a must have. It will take off with 30° of flaps but under gross weight and a hot day does not do it gracefully.

When the wind is blowing unless right in my face I don't even try to use them since the roll control is so greatly reduced.

Bottom line yes they are a lot of fun are they needed no if you are sloppy about airspeed then you may consider them a great help bottom line I could give up my flaps but I would never give up my vortex generators

[RobertP]

Re: Flaps?

I have a F22A which has flaps and I agree with what Shawn says.

In addition they can cause a good deal of vibration in the wing area in certain circumstances which can be a bit worrying especially set at 30 degrees on finals!

When I had to have the wing taken off to repair the fuel tank leak! ( Don't even ask! ) They found a substantial crack in the Aluminium strip on the leading edge area where the wooden spars go (sorry about the lack of technical description ) They had to make an insert into the damaged area and it was felt that this damage was caused by vibration from the flaps! my mechanic advised against using them in future!

Having said that I still use them on occasions but very carefully. They are useful set at 10 degrees for short take off's.

[blue_ridge]

Re: Flaps?

Thanks guys for replying about your experiences.

Shawn and RobertP, thanks for the F-22 insights.

[Pearson]

Re: Flaps?

I am a little curious about your definition of landing in a short distance or ultra tight landings. A Taylorcraft flown properly lands short by it's very nature. If you are landing with the "nose high just above stall speed" and it isn't a short enough landing, you have the wrong airplane. A sloppy pilot using poor technique can land a Taylorcraft in 300 ft or less at sea level. With practice that can easily be reduced to a couple hundred feet. Add 31" Airstreaks and you can plop it down in 150 feet or less. Obviously if you are going into high mountain strips these distances will be greater. If you are trying to emulate the guys in Alaska that compete in the landing contests, I suggest you get a Cub. They have a different airfoil. You mentioned that you might just need more time in the Taylorcraft. It does take practice to consistently get the best performance out the Taylorcraft. Maybe you are right. Try spending more time in it and see if you are better able to get consistent results. I personally feel that flaps won't do anything for you that a good sideslip can't do. Keep in mind that the guys you see in the STOL competition do that for a living. They have thousands of hours of doing exactly that type of flying every day. If you want to perform like that, it takes more than just the right airplane.

[Guest]

Re: Flaps?

When doing the short 300' landings how high is the obstacle at the approach end of the runway?

Dave

[T-Rex]

Re: Flaps?

A little off topic but it always shocks me when a guy who flies 20-30 hrs. per year comes in to the shop and wants to do everything he can to loose weight on the airplane witch usually means a $800.00 starter a $600.00 alternator and then maybe through in a $1200.00 VG kit oh yeah and don't forget about install labor. All of this to lose about 10 to 15lbs of weight. And don't forget most of them are about 30lbs overweight. More time in the seat is all they need, that is the most important thing you can do to improve performance.

[flyguy]

Re: Flaps?

I'll agree on that. I just got to fly 5 days in a row last week and about the forth day I landed in a 12 kt crosswind. I thought, "well that wasn't so bad." I don't think I have ever flown 5 days in a row before.

Sure didn't have to work so hard to get it slowed down and plopped on the end of the runway. That was just one landing per day. Lot more comfortable, not such a busy feeling.
DC

[cubby]

Re: Flaps?

Anyone have experience using a Taylorcraft with flaps for backcountry or off airport flying?

Were the flaps a worthwhile improvement in performance, or landing target consistency?

I have Flaps on my second Taylorcraft, my Model 19, didn,t have them, but my F22A ,does, there a deterent to floating, and thats about it ,the owners Manual says no flaps, for take off, in Emergency only ,which makes me think its possible the wing could be over stressed, with the 118 hp Lycoming,but i wouldn,t recomend them, with the out lay of time, and money, you,d have to pay,but to each his own ,i wish i had waited ,and bought another Model 19,i have a lot of money tied up in a nose wheel Taylorcraft,when i should have bought another tail wheel ,with out flaps ,i had 800 hours in my Model 19 ,the only thing you need to know ,make a slower approach ,with in saftey limits ,and it wont float ,Paul. ( cubby )