Flaps?

[M Towsley]

Re: Flaps?

We had an Auster owner/attempted restorer at one time here on the forum if I remember correctly. I think he went crazy because he owned it. Personally, I wouldn't waste my time reading about them.

Oh if you could have only spoken to my now departed uncle who was an aircraft engineer/designer for Convair/General Dynamics. B-36, B-58, F-111 and F-16 among others. Great stories...

[PA1195]

Re: Flaps?

Does this help?

Looks like it gets flakey at more than 30 degrees of flaps (ie 50 and 60 degrees).

Abbott and Von Doenhoff, Fig. 119. I re-read Section 8 this afternoon after 40 some years which is where I found the link #664. They don't really exclude the slotted flap design and limiting flap travel could control the pitching effect within the range of elevator control.

What Taylorcraft did when implementing flaps, how well they function, and whether or not they're desirable to retrofit is open to question. I'd not do it mainly for certification reasons. It would take an extensive airframe change as well. Better to buy a plane with them installed.

Gary

[AeroCapture]

Re: Flaps?

Well Gary,

I am only a layman here but it does appear that the flaps were basically a reworking of the ailerons and were attached with modified versions on the same aileron hardware and aileron cove material.

-Lyle

Hi Lyle. How did taylorcraft support the flap's loads forward into the wing structure? Did they use compression bracing between the spars or any visible structural improvements? There is an experimental retro-fit here (Greg Clayton the skylight STC owner) but externally it looks similar to the aileron installation...internally ??? I've not asked him. It would take a major wing and airframe change to install but might be a fun project nonetheless.

I installed flaps on my C-90 PA-11 after flying it for a few without. Cost was $5000+ and the benefit on takeoff questionable. Unless deployed no more than 12* the additional drag hindered takeoff (there were three notches at 12/25/50*). I could land on a $0.10 but not takeoff in the same distance...unbalanced performance. They were nice for slow flight and on floats or in deep snow at times.

It's interesting to discuss flaps with Supercub owners. When asked if they ever leave them up for takeoff or landing I've been met with a deer-in-the headlights stare. I owned two PA-18's and rarely deployed them for takeoff unless the conditions required...maybe 4 mph difference in performance which is blown through with their power very quickly. They can increase rate of descent through increased drag nicely over obstacles or minimize ground roll on rough terrain.

Gary

[PA1195]

Re: Flaps?

Well Gary,

I am only a layman here but it does appear that the flaps were basically a reworking of the ailerons and were attached with modified versions on the same aileron hardware and aileron cove material.

-Lyle

Thank you Lyle for taking the time to reply and post some great pictures. I too am a layman but am always interested in new and different. I suspected the flap<>aileron assemblage link but only because the aileron design seems to have survived the test of time. Adding a complex slotted or other design would have required engineering and new parts, whereas using existing hardware simplified the process. The local experimental with flaps looks like an aileron adaptation, but his extendable leading edge slats are another matter.

How did you come by these parts and information?

Did Taylorcraft install a gap seal on the upper slot between the wing and flap like Piper did on their Cubs with flaps? I flew my Pipers and Citabria with and without that seal and found it beneficial when installed. I then installed a similar gap seal between the aileron and wing for better roll control. That and installing a spill-plate on the outboard ends of the flaps plus VG's resulted in a GPS stall/mush of 29 mph in level flight.

Gary

[AeroCapture]

Re: Flaps?

Well, they were included in a good sized parts cache that I recently purchased and in all honestly, I have no plans to use them or the hardware. Might see if converting the flaps in ailerons is a viable option...

Thank you Lyle for taking the time to reply and post some great pictures. I too am a layman but am always interested in new and different. I suspected the flap<>aileron assemblage link but only because the aileron design seems to have survived the test of time. Adding a complex slotted or other design would have required engineering and new parts, whereas using existing hardware simplified the process. The local experimental with flaps looks like an aileron adaptation, but his extendable leading edge slats are another matter.

How did you come by these parts and information?

Gary

[astjp2]

Re: Flaps?

I am interested in the flap hardware...Tim

[AeroCapture]

Re: Flaps?

Hello Tim,

Just responded to your PM.

- Lyle

[N96337]

Re: Flaps?

That's an interesting setup! I'd thrown around this idea for quite a while, but was more pulled to head to an attach bracket more like the Husky uses.
John