Engine quitting on landing

[mohawktipi]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

Don't forget to check the gaskets between the intakes and the cylinders. I had a C-85 that would not idle below 1000 rpm. After rebuilding the carb and checking the mag settings, it still would not idle. After further checks, I decide to pull the cylinders and check the valves. While removing the intake spider and associated parts, I noticed a discoloration where the intake elbows attach to the cylinders. Turns out the previous owner had installed the wrong gaskets and they did not seal properly. Once I put the right ones on, everything ran great. Didn't have to pull the cylinders.

[swoeric]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

Here is a motor man i found through the IF1 site. There were a couple of times he helped folks with a motor quitting after landing.

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm

Eric

[crispy critter]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

The ethonal will also kill the plugs easily,especially if your still using an unshielded ignition. Another thing to think about is (and this part is second hand info but makes sense) 10% ethonal will drop the carb temp at least 10% from normal at cruise power and can help act as a super coolent on long power off decents. Are you using carb heat and if so how well does it work? I am a firm believer in using low octane auto gas in any of these low compression continentals but I have also seen what the ethonal will do to an older fuel system.....it ain't pretty or cheap.
Our wonderful government is making a lot of sense with this ethonal shit....to make enough ethonal to cover the 10% in most fuels it only uses about 10% more oil to manufature(not counting what the farm equiment uses to harvest the corn),it actually cost more money to make it then what it saves to leave it out. It reduces gas mileage by at least 10% in anything you run it in no mater what type of mods you do to your vehicle. It increases wear & tear on your engine & fuel system, and last but certinly not least it drives up the price of corn and related comodities. I think it's one of the governments best ideas yet......to prove how ignorant they can be!

[waltermrich]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

Nothing against farmers but they are incredably powerfull with there lobbyist, they make a lot of corn in the midwest they want to sell it. Its a two sided debate but personally I think it doesn't prove out that using corn as fuel is a good idea.

[Pearson]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

Dennis,

Have you had any success in figuring out what is causing your engine to quit?

[jim cooper]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

I have followed the corn fuel situation CAREFULLY for about 4 years. It was a political payoff in the last administration purely to get the midwest farm vote. It makes no other sense as it costs more to make than is saved.....PLUS it increases the price of food! Not to mention that it has ruined quite a few aircraft engines and can be deadly. Insurance companys may also refuse payment if there is a forced landing due to ethynol in gas, etc. Also....the "govmint" pays a 50 cent subsidy on each gallon! That payment is made by YOU! POWERFUL lobbys are involved here as they are in all other things currently on the table. Some say "They want their country back". Yeah, maybe 1950! I sure as hell don't want 2000-2008 back. They started two wars and broke us! I never use car gas anymore. Too risky,also can be dangerous compared to AV gas if left in tank unused over a period of time (ie:6mos.) So when one says it was a "government idea" they must mean politicians idea as they had to pass it! TERM LIMITS!
JC

[NY86]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

Well, if it ruined a single certificated aircraft engine, the only one to blame is the one who put the fuel in the plane.

[flybikefarm]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

I have used auto gas in airplanes almost since the first auto stc came out. I keep a tank just for my airplanes. Every time I get a delivery I do an alcohol test. The stc specificaly calls for no alcohol. I keep no more gas than I can use in 3 months.
As far as corn usage for alcohol, it is an industry that creates jobs for americans, and keeps our dollars from going overseas. After the corn is processed into alcohol, the remaining mash is used for livestock feed. I was under the impression that corn flakes, corn chips, taco shells, sweet corn and many other food products were made from specialty corn, not field corn. At least that is why many farmers get paid to to raise these specialty crops. Even a lot of the corn you make you corn bread from is not field corn.
You need to go back more than just four years to track usage. You also need to go back ten or fifteen years to look at the farmers input cost. Land prices ten years ago were half of what they are now. Maybe we should stop urban expanion to save or agricultural land. All of my input costs have more than doubled in the last ten years. I just finished my federal tax return last friday, my fuel bill alone was more than $20,000. The cost of a bag of seed corn is well over the $300 mark. One bag of seed plants 2.5 acres. You do the math.
I'm just giving some of the facts of what it costs to farm.
If the price of corn and soybeans had been keeping up with off farm wages and the cost to farm, corn should be $10 a bushel, and soybeans should should be $25 a bushel.

Oh by the way there is a saying, DON'T CRY TO THE FARMER WITH YOUR MOUTH FULL



gEORGE

[jim cooper]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

I think farmers should play by the same rules of any other businessman. I got no subsidys, ever. If the numbers don't work, get out of the business! Its proven that ethynol made from corn is totally inefficient and MANY articles have been written on this, and many more proving it raises the price of food a good bit. I don't think there is an argument about this if the facts are presented. (see wall street journal, ny times articles.) JC

[Guest]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

Have a little problem fellow T-Crafters. My 1946 65hp metal prop BC12D has developed a nasty little habit of quitting on roll out after landing. I admit I have been using auto gas with that 10% alcohol in it for about 18 months now. Everything seems to been running good until last August it raised it's ugly head and quit for the first time. Now about 10 hours flying time later it is happening about each time I land. Last time I went flying (two week ago), I put 100LL in her and flew for 20 minutes and it still quit on landing. Sometimes it will start right up and sometimes, it take forever to start (think it floods). Tried to pull primer out on roll out a few times and did not make a difference. Got any ideas where to start to check?

Hi Dennis, how did it go?

I too had the engine quitting on roll out in November.

I cleaned the gum (a.k.a. "varnish") out of my carb and that helped a lot.

The real "biggy" though was adjusting the idle mixture. The last time I adjusted it was on a July day and I think that it was just too lean for a November day. Add to that whatever the gum did and it must have caused the quitting due to leaness in the cold air. I richened up the idle mixture and it seems to be very smoth and fine now. Actually the idle is smoother now, maybe your idle is not so smooth??

I idle at 400 on the tach.

Hope this helps, Dave.

[Pearson]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

Dave,

While I agree with your logic for figuring out what the problem with Dennis' engine might be, I can't think of a single problem that is worth taking the kind of risk involved in working on a running engine. There are just FAR too many things that could happen to cause someone to fall, trip, or be dragged into a moving prop. I STRONGLY disagree with any kind of repair procedure that involves working on the engine of a running airplane.

Put the exhaust side of a vacuum cleaner over the carb. Then use soapy water on the intake tubes, bubbles=vacuum leak. Or just tighten up the screws on the clamps and test fly to see if it worked.

[astjp2]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

Dave,

While I agree with your logic for figuring out what the problem with Dennis' engine might be, I can't think of a single problem that is worth taking the kind of risk involved in working on a running engine. There are just FAR too many things that could happen to cause someone to fall, trip, or be dragged into a moving prop. I STRONGLY disagree with any kind of repair procedure that involves working on the engine of a running airplane.

Put the exhaust side of a vacuum cleaner over the carb. Then use soapy water on the intake tubes, bubbles=vacuum leak. Or just tighten up the screws on the clamps and test fly to see if it worked.

You are obviously not a mechanic, it is almost impossible to troubleshoot some engine problems without the engine running. How would you expect to set the idle mixure without it running? Tim

[Pearson]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

Tim,

I am not an A&P mechanic. I do however work on my own plane occasionally. I also made a very good living working on cars for many years. One of the many things I have done on my own airplane is adjust the mixture. I do it with the engine off, that is right OFF. I adjust the mixture screw and THEN start the engine to check how it is running. This may not be the way the rest of the world does it, but I don't care. I think it is very poor advice to suggest someone work that close to a running airplane engine with a propeller attached. All of this is just my opinion, and Dennis can work on his plane as he sees fit. I am just offering that it is WAAAY too dangerous for me. If you are curious, NO I didn't adjust the carb on cars with the engine off. But THEY have a shroud around their little fans to keep fingers and hands out. Tim you can do it however you want, I'll keep doing it my way.

[flyguy]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

Here in California they tell us the 7.5% E (typical) is for anti-pollution.

Does it surprise anyone that a former state representative owns one of the biggest ethanol producing plants in the state?

About the running engine. I've done it on occasion, but it makes me really nervous. No aces up sleeve, no backup, one mistake and you are chopped up.

None the less, when I had the long magneto plague I had an entire ignition analyzer setup beside the engine with it running. It wasn't fun though.

I have adjusted the mixture by the tweak, run engine, check, turn engine off, tweak, ect., method. Works fine, much preferred for me.

My judgement: OK for pros if you want to do it, not a real good idea for amateurs.

Darryl

[Rex Havis]

Re: Engine quitting on landing

I had the same problem on my Midget Mustang a few years ago, the problem turned out to be leaks in the intake system. All that was required was tighting the clamps on the intake tubes. A good friend of mine that had a FBO operation told me how to check the system. Using diesel fuel in a spray bottle, with the engine running spray the intake tubes at the rubber fittings and around the carb. and spider. If you have a vacuum leak, the RPM's will increase. When doing this you have to be vary careful of the prop. When I do it, I set on the ground to make sure I stay stable. Hope this helps Rex