WHAT IF (separated from Whispers of North)

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Whispers of the North

Management of expectations is one of the most difficult parts of any relationship (personal or professional). The main way to manage those expectations is through good communications. This site is GREAT communications. If there is something we want this group to be, it's up to US to do it. Not the foundation, not the club, not the new Taylorcraft owners and not the second tier parts suppliers, US.

You are RIGHT that we deserve more. Let's get off our collective backsides and communicate what our priorities are and go after them.

Personally, I want more local activities. Anyone want to get together in the Mid-Atlantic. Time to start communicating.

Hank

By the way, I'm open to anyone in other areas too.

[murphy]

Re: Whispers of the North

This thread has been hijacked again!!!!
I would love to see something in my area in the form of a type club, there are seven TCrafts in this area that I know of and the only time we see each other is at fly-ins. I once had a Piper Pacer and was a member of the Short Wing Club both nationally and regionally with the Dixie Wing. My wife and I made a few meeting around the state and they were fun so count me in for a Southern Chapter Member. Mike

[mulwyk]

Re: Whispers of the North

Hank, Dave, Richard...ditto me too.

Some thoughts on this highjack subject.

First: strong national type club
Then: regional

And don't let everything depend on just one guy, especially if that guy is trying to run an airport and a family and... Look, I'm retired, I certainly have time to volunteer for type club duties. I'll bet there's others online that would also have time to help out. It only needs someone to organize.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Whispers of the North

The Taylorcraft Foundation was formed to do what it does do. We have all the information preserved , we do not do parts, we formed the Discussion forumn and have not insisted that you belong to the Foundation to join and post. ( I have been blasted for that by paid up members!) I still truly belive that those who understand will freely pay their dues of only $20.00 per year.
If many want to see a reason to belong then we can insist that you join the Foundation to post ....... We set up the Regional Representatives to have the local aspect being taken care of with Regional Fly-Ins and get togethers. I was going to eliminate the Alliance Annual Fly-IN ...... My choice , my airport. However; all agreed to continue with the week-end after the 4th of July till the end of the Barber Airport .
D. Rude is welcome to visit any time and participate in using the drawings and materials stored here, perhaps he and Hank can work in their REGIONS to encourage get togethers..... Please read the Foundations latest newsletter to see some of the frustrations we go through here trying to just keep the Taylorcraft Owners together. YOU had a Type Club , the Taylorcraft Owners Club and the newsletter there continues. The Taylorcraft Foundation has been labeled by EAA to be a Type Club and an "organization" this changes all the time.
I am sending notifications for the New Year to the Foundation Board and the Regional Reps tomorrow. I plan to visit with "Duke" Iden today , he has asked me to come to his home and discuss the future; Duke of course is one of the last of the " Old-Timers". Tom Pittman , VCTOC is in a rest home of course and does read the e-mails to him..... The site is off line ( to my knowledge) .
We are still building airplanes, 1925 WACO 9, Pietenpohl, Kolb Kobra, repair of a Cessna 140, many things going on and just got the runway plowed. OFF today and back tomorrow afternoon. bye Forrest

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Whispers of the North

In my opinion the Foundation should remain what it is, a resource for information preservation and the center point for all Taylorcraft activities. Ever notice that the axle doesn't rotate? Not it's job. It is there to keep the wheel in place and provide steering and suspension connection. That's what the Foundation and Forrest do. Forrest also provides a lot of power to the wheels, but that is OUR job, not his.

I think the Forum should remain OPEN and free. If that means I need to pay extra, so be it. A lousey $20 a year is a bargain, but it would loose SO MUCH if only Foundation members could post. This is our outreach, and it needs to be open. Don't listen to the blasts from those who want to make the forum more "elite". If we do that it will die. If the cost goes up and you need more to support the Forum from Foundation members, you are right, just ask and we will pay. I can tell you I'll gladly pay more for something that provides me so much.

As for the Regional Representatives, I haven't had much contact WRT local activities, YET. Again, I don't think it is "Their Jobs", they are there to coordinate. If We want to have activities, WE need to get together. Seems like a good time to start planning for this spring and summer.

Hank

Who IS the rep for the mid-Atlantic anyway? Let's get together.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Whispers of the North

thanks Hank , I sent an e-mail direct to you then came back here , they crossed in cyberspace.... I am running out to get a POV camera ; " Duke" Iden is now on the internet, going to visit him today. ; Mid-Atlantic , hmmmmmmm maybe you?? !!

[Hank Jarrett]

WHAT IF from Whispers of North

Let's get together and look at the national (international?) distribution of Taylorcrafts. That should show us how to break up the regions. I would be willing to help if everyone else could put up with my SLOWNESS. ;-)
Hank

[Guest]

Re: Whispers of the North

The Taylorcraft Foundation was formed to do what it does do. We have all the information preserved , we do not do parts, we formed the Discussion forumn and have not insisted that you belong to the Foundation to join and post. ( I have been blasted for that by paid up members!) I still truly belive that those who understand will freely pay their dues of only $20.00 per year.
If many want to see a reason to belong then we can insist that you join the Foundation to post ....... We set up the Regional Representatives to have the local aspect being taken care of with Regional Fly-Ins and get togethers. I was going to eliminate the Alliance Annual Fly-IN ...... My choice , my airport. However; all agreed to continue with the week-end after the 4th of July till the end of the Barber Airport .
D. Rude is welcome to visit any time and participate in using the drawings and materials stored here, perhaps he and Hank can work in their REGIONS to encourage get togethers..... Please read the Foundations latest newsletter to see some of the frustrations we go through here trying to just keep the Taylorcraft Owners together. YOU had a Type Club , the Taylorcraft Owners Club and the newsletter there continues. The Taylorcraft Foundation has been labeled by EAA to be a Type Club and an "organization" this changes all the time.
I am sending notifications for the New Year to the Foundation Board and the Regional Reps tomorrow. I plan to visit with "Duke" Iden today , he has asked me to come to his home and discuss the future; Duke of course is one of the last of the " Old-Timers". Tom Pittman , VCTOC is in a rest home of course and does read the e-mails to him..... The site is off line ( to my knowledge) .
We are still building airplanes, 1925 WACO 9, Pietenpohl, Kolb Kobra, repair of a Cessna 140, many things going on and just got the runway plowed. OFF today and back tomorrow afternoon. bye Forrest

Interesting, so then if I got there I could take the drawings to a local copy shop and have copies made?

Is there a copy shop near by?

Is there a list or index of the drawings that are on hand there?

Dave

[Guest]

Re: Whispers of the North

The Taylorcraft Foundation was formed to do what it does do. We have all the information preserved , we do not do parts, we formed the Discussion forumn and have not insisted that you belong to the Foundation to join and post. ( I have been blasted for that by paid up members!) I still truly belive that those who understand will freely pay their dues of only $20.00 per year.
If many want to see a reason to belong then we can insist that you join the Foundation to post ....... We set up the Regional Representatives to have the local aspect being taken care of with Regional Fly-Ins and get togethers. I was going to eliminate the Alliance Annual Fly-IN ...... My choice , my airport. However; all agreed to continue with the week-end after the 4th of July till the end of the Barber Airport .
D. Rude is welcome to visit any time and participate in using the drawings and materials stored here, perhaps he and Hank can work in their REGIONS to encourage get togethers..... Please read the Foundations latest newsletter to see some of the frustrations we go through here trying to just keep the Taylorcraft Owners together. YOU had a Type Club , the Taylorcraft Owners Club and the newsletter there continues. The Taylorcraft Foundation has been labeled by EAA to be a Type Club and an "organization" this changes all the time.
I am sending notifications for the New Year to the Foundation Board and the Regional Reps tomorrow. I plan to visit with "Duke" Iden today , he has asked me to come to his home and discuss the future; Duke of course is one of the last of the " Old-Timers". Tom Pittman , VCTOC is in a rest home of course and does read the e-mails to him..... The site is off line ( to my knowledge) .
We are still building airplanes, 1925 WACO 9, Pietenpohl, Kolb Kobra, repair of a Cessna 140, many things going on and just got the runway plowed. OFF today and back tomorrow afternoon. bye Forrest

Forrest, who are the regional reps?

Dave

[Guest]

Re: Whispers of the North

Let's get together and look at the national (international?) distribution of Taylorcrafts. That should show us how to break up the regions. I would be willing to help if everyone else could put up with my SLOWNESS. ;-)
Hank

I am not following here. Does this imply that the Foundation is a TYPE club?

I thought the prior posts indicated that it was not.

"The Taylorcraft Foundation was formed to do what it does do. We have all the information preserved...YOU had a Type Club , the Taylorcraft Owners Club and the newsletter there continues..."



Or is this offer "outside" of the auspices of the Foundation?

Dave

[freightpilot27]

Re: Whispers of the North

It took me 18 months (and multiple e mail attempts to Forrest) to get my TF# after I paid my dues AND made an additional donation. Only after an e mail with the threat of not renewing my membership did I get a response and resolution. I know Forrest is insanely busy.
Lets get someone else to take care of that?
Lighten the load.

I rarely get an answer (email) from Forrest when I’m looking for information on my airplane or drawings. I know this is a common problem. Again, he is busy as heck, not his fault.
Lets get someone else to take care of that.
Lighten the load.

I believe there needs to be multiple backups of the drawings and information.
I would like to see it become much easier to obtain aircraft drawings from the foundation. Electronic or paper copies. Maybe the ability to down load them from a website for a nominal fee each. ($1 each, 10 for $8, etc, etc.) Charge whatever is needed.
OR
Have them on CD available for sale. (wing CD, Fuselage CD, FWF CD, Empanage CD) for example.
Income for the Foundation or a Type Club.
I.E. The foundation leases the information and drawings to the Type Owners Club. The type club makes electronic copies available for sale or "donation".
This could keep the foundation (Forrest) from being overwhelmed, yet, gets the information to the people who need it. I mean, what the hells the point of having the drawings if no one can use them?

(I don't know if there are copyrights involved or not)

The load needs to be lightened on Forrest. That’s my point here. I am willing to help in anyway.
I do have the ability to digitize large blueprints. I'm willing to take care of this for the foundation or Type Club. Or anything else that’s needed, whoever knows, let me know.
___________________________________________

I spent 10 minutes looking at parts availability for different manufactures of airplanes, and the number of registered with the FAA.

2786 Taylorcraft airplanes registered with the FAA
2427 Luscombes
2598 Stinson 108 series
1550 Ercoupe, Forney, Mooney M10, etc.

We have the most registered aircraft (in the U.S.) of all the models listed. Yet, the worst parts availability.

Univair, WagAero, Classic Aero must make money with the extensive list of parts they have available for the other type aircraft or they wouldn’t do it.
I don't understand why Taylorcraft couldn’t make money by making parts for the Taylorcraft? Anyone? Anyone?


Someone in an earlier post made the statement about us classic tailwheel owners are too cheap to buy parts and would make our own to save money even if they were available. I do not completely disagree.
However, if that is completely true (or at least partially true) then there would be no way Taylorcraft could make money building a new F19, or any other model for that matter. Who in there right mind would buy a tiny, antiquated airplane like the Taylorcraft for $100k?
And they would be $100k, or close. Why? Liability insurance. (thank-you greedy un-educated, non-aviation general public and lawyers.)

It was tried with the Luscombe............. end of story.

Taylorcraft would make money building parts. Not tomorrow, but they would make money, IF they do it right.


I LOVE the Taylorcraft. I didn't buy a Luscombe project, or a Cessna 120 project, or a cub project. I bought a Taylorcraft project because I think it is a better airplane. That’s my opinion. And I knew about the lack of parts availability before I bought my basket case.

I was on the fence about renewing my foundation membership.

I will renew it since I think the foundation is a needed entity. I have learned an infinite amount from the Forums. And I have an Infinite amount to go before I know half of what the "experts" here know. If, at the very least, the Forums stay active, it will be worth my measly $20 a year.

The Foundation (Forrest) generally does a great job. I believe it (he) is a necessity. However, I believe the foundation is so close, but not quite there. We need an ACTIVE Type Club to go the rest of the way. I believe WE need to do more for Taylorcraft to do more.

Whatever I can do, I am willing.

I know this is a ramble and not very organized, but I think it gets a few of my points & opinions across.

Forrest-
Call or Email me with anything I can do. (I can’t seem to get through to you).

Robert D. Anderson
(248) 310-3583
[email protected]



Jim- I am sorry for hijacking your thread. Suzy and I both loved the video. It makes us want to move up more than ever.

[Guest]

Re: Whispers of the North

Hi Robert,

I think I made the comment about parts and profitability you referred to.

I was thinking that since there is small population of planes that are active and two suppliers already have an overlap of some part numbers that it would be likely that a third supplier of the same parts will fail.

I suspect that the volumes for T-craft parts is very low so they will be expensive.

This thread makes that point, prior to your post and the one prior to you we had 67 pieces taken from 48 part numbers and 22 of the 48 could be found on teh market now.

I know that for some parts there are more than 2 existing suppliers but for the difficult parts Wag and Uni are the main sources.

[Pearson]

WHAT IF from Whispers of North

It sounds like you are suggesting what I mentioned in an earlier post regarding the drawings. I suggested that they be put online. They could be paid for in a variety of ways. I for one would gladly rejoin the Foundation for the ability to download the drawings. I think for this privlege we should be willing to either pay more for Foundation dues, or pay a fee per drawing.

But as I suggested previously, not only the drawings should be available. STCs, 337s, and anything else that is commonly requested. I know STC, & 337s are available. But as recently as last night I had someone contact me about where to find the STC for using pop rivets to attach the fabric.

I would gladly volunteer to create a website for the Foundation to disseminate the drawings and other info, but I do not have that talent. I want to make it very clear, that I would not expect the foundation to fund the startup of a dedicated webpage. We would have to put our money where our mouth is and all pitch in financially to cover the costs.

I would also like to point out that just because an organization in non-profit does not mean everyone associated with it is a volunteer. If someone among us has the talent to start (and maintain) a website, and they want to volunteer their talent that is great. But if not, we should be able to raise enough money to pay for someone to do this. I think there would be enough requests for drawings and other info to provide a revenue stream for the Foundation above and beyond any start up or ongoing costs.

There are also other possibilities. How much would you be willing to pay for a sprial bound book detailing EXACTLY how to fix or restore every little part of your airplane, complete with pictures. The info is all right here on this forum. All someone needs to do is obviously get permission to use the photos posted here, and then do it. This could be a HUGE revenue source for the foundation. And once again, the person doing it doesn't have to be a volunteer. By charging more for dues, and a few extra contributions, I think the Foundation could raise enough money to pay for clerical help or web designers to start projects like these.

Forrest, Bob, others, a penny for your thoughts. Is this too far out of the realm of the Foundation? As I understand it, part of the Foundation's purpose is to maintain archives, provide information and research assistance. I think this would be an excellent way to provide more information and research assistance.

[freightpilot27]

Re: Whispers of the North

Hi Robert,

I think I made the comment about parts and profitability you referred to.

I was thinking that since there is small population of planes that are active and two suppliers already have an overlap of some part numbers that it would be likely that a third supplier of the same parts will fail.

I suspect that the volumes for T-craft parts is very low so they will be expensive.

This thread makes that point, prior to your post and the one prior to you we had 67 pieces taken from 48 part numbers and 22 of the 48 could be found on teh market now.

I know that for some parts there are more than 2 existing suppliers but for the difficult parts Wag and Uni are the main sources.

Luscombe parts suppliers: Univair, WagAero, Classic Aero.
That is 3 companies. All have been selling parts for luscombes for years.
All still sell parts for Luscombes.
They must ALL still make a profit from Luscombe parts or they wouldn’t still offer parts. (Though, I have not looked at each individual company's financial statements)

There is 13% LESS luscombes registered in the U.S. than Taylorcraft. Yet 3 suppliers are making money.

Taylorcraft investors are gearing up to spend some money to hopefully make money. They will NOT do it by building airplanes. Whether they end up making money or not, there best chance is with parts. In my opinion, and according to the history of general aviation.

[freightpilot27]

Re: Whispers of the North

Hi Robert,

I think I made the comment about parts and profitability you referred to.

I was thinking that since there is small population of planes that are active and two suppliers already have an overlap of some part numbers that it would be likely that a third supplier of the same parts will fail.

I suspect that the volumes for T-craft parts is very low so they will be expensive.

This thread makes that point, prior to your post and the one prior to you we had 67 pieces taken from 48 part numbers and 22 of the 48 could be found on teh market now.

I know that for some parts there are more than 2 existing suppliers but for the difficult parts Wag and Uni are the main sources.

Luscombe parts suppliers: Univair, WagAero, Classic Aero.
That is 3 companies. All have been selling parts for luscombes for years.
All still sell parts for Luscombes.
They must ALL still make a profit from Luscombe parts or they wouldn’t still offer parts. (Though, I have not looked at each individual company's financial statements)

There is 13% LESS luscombes registered in the U.S. than Taylorcraft. Yet 3 suppliers are making money.

Taylorcraft investors are gearing up to spend some money to hopefully make money. They will NOT do it by building airplanes. Whether they end up making money or not, there best chance is with parts. In my opinion, and according to the history of general aviation.