propping your t craft

[jim cooper]

Re: propping your t craft

Many, MANY thanks for all your thoughts. Never thought of simply tying the damn thing to the CAR! Too Simple and practical! I shall do that! Also ....was told about shutting off the gas but forgot that. This is another excellent suggestion. So.... I'll tie the t-craft to the Subaru, (tow ring provided) turn off the gas, prop it (after the prime and pull thru routine) from the front, (throttle just cracked) go around the wing, throttle all the way back, untie it and get in, turn gas on and haul a..! The cub was easy from the rear as was the champ. Incidentally, when the T-Craft was in NY state, Bob Dart the airport owner would always offer to prop it. (A Great pilot and great human being!) He simply walked up to the prop, pulled on it to make sure I had brakes on , said "Switch off", pulled it thru 3 times and said "Make it hot". Bob was 6'3 or so. He simply grabbed the prop with one hand and effortlessly pulled it abruptly, standing stock still, flat footed but with little effort. No leg in the air stuff. It always started first time out. Bob Dart passed away a year ago and is missed by all who knew him. I should add that as the engine was starting to fire, Bob was already walking towards his golf cart. Thanks again folks! JC

[Forrest Barber]

Re: propping your t craft

Brings back many memories of Bob Dart , I will be going there in a couple of weeks to see Greg and one of his ships. Handpropping is not rocket science. Very easy and safe if you know how!

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: propping your t craft

Bob had one part of his routine really right. There is NO REASON to throw your leg out and go through all the theatrics. Even an O-200 DOES NOT need that much force. If your plane needs to be pulled that hard something is wrong and you should look at it.
One addition I use when propping is I do NOT trust my brakes when starting. I use TWO ropes at the tail (from each lift handle). The one on the right is with a nice solid carabiner (can't spell it, but one of those clips the rock climbers use) clip on each end. The second rope has a slip knot with the release running to the pilot seat. I make sure BOTH ropes are solid, start the engine (procedure details don't matter, I have started dozens of small Continentals and Lycs and every one was a little different). Walk to the cockpit and make sure everything is good with the engine. Walk to the trail and make sure the slip knot is secure. Go to the Starboard clip and unhook it. Man up and pull the slip knot to release the plane. I am always two fault tolerant (safety engineer speak for "double safe") and it really doesn't take any extra time (even less if you get credit for not having to mess with the lousy parking brake).
I REALLY like the idea of tying to the car! I probably didn't think of it myself since I thought my "MIGHTY 65" could probably drag my little Miata down the ramp at idle.

Hank

You really don't even need a ring on the car. With two clips on the starboard rope you could just throw the rope around a tire and clip it to itself! No risk of tying a bad knot!

[VictorBravo]

Re: propping your t craft

There is NO REASON to throw your leg out and go through all the theatrics. Even an O-200 DOES NOT need that much force. If your plane needs to be pulled that hard something is wrong and you should look at it.

Throwing the leg is not done for exerting force on the prop. Like I said, it is done for a different reason than a 1920's barnstormer.

It is done in this instance to get your body inertia starting to move away from the propeller when the engine starts. The effective part of this maneuver is that it starts you walking backward quickly out of the danger zone.

[Ryan]

Re: propping your t craft

Bill, I use the same approach as you. Being rather tall, kicking my leg helps to start my body away from the prop. It seems to me that the Tcraft nose is lower than Cubs or Champs, so swinging my leg seems to give me balance and start the walking away procedure.

Ryan

[Larry Lyons]

Re: propping your t craft

I agree with Bill, I do simple because it gets my body moving the right way. I did have the foot that I was using as my anchor slip a bit (on a bit of gravel) once and the swinging leg made up for the unexpected forward travel of my left foot. My opinion only here and it is what I was taught back when dirt was still rock. Larry

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: propping your t craft

All reasons cited were good in the old days to swing your leg. Problem is that these engines don't need the force or inertia away from the prop any more when set up right and a "newbe" will almost ALWAYS be out of sequence when he pulls the prop through. Nothing will make you a believer faster than seeing someone do the leg swing and whack their ankle with the prop blade they just pulled on. Only good thing is the engine didn't start or there could be a real mess to clean off the plane.
I guess we ALL agree to NOT try and teach yourself hand propping. Get someone OLD with all their dangling pieces in place to teach you. I doubt I will EVER have the guts to start from behind on a land plane. Scares me to death. The discussion of why it's not so bad on floats made a LOT of sense.
If you learn from an old master and swing your leg, well, nothing succeeds like success! For me, I will tweak my engine till it will start with a standing gentle three finger pull (no, I'm not there yet. Not even close).
Hank

I'll brag here when I get it that perfect. Don't hold your breath.

[t-crafter]

Re: propping your t craft

Jees Hank, the average age of us your talking too has got to be close to68 or 70 !! so who are the old farts we are suposed to get instruction from? Most of those gus are drawing aircraft designs on the back side of casket lids!! Were it now guys! Lets be save!!

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: propping your t craft

I guess so. It's funny that I'M the Grey Hair in the office now! I just had a telecon with some JSC guys who didn't know how the suits worked on Gemini. Then I remembered their last mission was Gemini XII in 1966. That was almost 20 years before these guys were BORN!
Makes me remember those great words to live by from Charley Sheen in Two and a Half Men. "You are only as old as the girls you feel." To feel younger, you gota feel younger.
Hank

Boy am I in trouble now!

[VictorBravo]

Re: propping your t craft

I guess so. It's funny that I'M the Grey Hair in the office now!

Yeah, I think of that concept all the time when I realize I'm one of the crusty old advice-givers and safety police in our local EAA chapter.

So now the young smart-ass me from 20 years ago can come out from the far corners of my mind and laugh his ass off at the old wise me... who's now the one telling pilots not to do the stuff I can still remember doing with such glee.

Has anyone actually PATENTED the concept of "getting old sucks"?

[akndrifter]

Re: propping your t craft

Don't your doors swing all the way open? When Mine is on wheels,I just open the door,hold the handle and swing the prop.
I do like the thing about shutting off the fuel though,never thought of that
PV

I usually do it like this (except hold on to the door frame so my hand is just inside the cabin) when I don't have anyone with me. If I do have someone, I just tell them if the airplane starts to move without me, then turn the mags off!

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: propping your t craft

Bill,
Getting old DOES NOT SUCK!!!! BEING old sucks! FEELING old sucks! Being thought of as old sucks! There was something else that sucked, but I forget what, and THAT REALLY sucks.
Hank

All you younger guys, STRIVE TO GET OLD! It can be GREAT! When you make body noises, everybody pretends they don't notice. When you go to Taco Bell, you get a free drink. When you forget things, everybody lets you slide. What were we talking about again? Oh yea, those little blue pills!!! Four hours! Who would have thought a little pill could DOUBLE your time?

[flyguy]

Re: propping your t craft

I just did a demo start with a 1st hour Taylorcraft student and new owner, and my CFII friend who is instructing him.

Mid-morning, kinda warm. Pulled the engine through 4 times and turned mag to on. With my left hand (3 fingers, I think, Hank) I pulled the prop down close to where the magneto kicks and then just gently and slowly pulled it thru the kick point while walking away to the right.

No flipping, no jerking, no off-balance foot swinging, just click, bang and pulling my hand to my body which is already outside the prop swing.

I could hear the sound of jaws dropping from the two observers behind me.
Darryl

[N96337]

Re: propping your t craft

I'm right with ya Bill.... was taught to always get that leg swing to get you started to move away from the prop. Seen lots that don't, but don't knock it until you try it. I've also seen where it probably saved a guy's bacon when he was on slick ground. Worst thing to prop was a Sonerai with that short little wooden prop, down low... quicker than the devil and almost as mean.
JH

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: propping your t craft

I agree with that one too. Worst plane I ever propped was a VP-2 with that same short stroke, short prop, high compression SOB VW engine that is in the Sonerai (and the Sonerai prop is probably even SHORTER than the Volksplane!). I was taught to use the crossed wrist, two hand technique to get enough snap to fire the mag (no inertia mag on that little sucker). To top it off the prop turns backwards and will backfire and slap your hand in a heartbeat. If anyone is thinking about using a VW on a project (and they can be GREAT little engines) check out the Kansas City Dawn Patrol for their chain saw starter systems. They work GREAT, are light and effective and no hand propping. The only reason I started looking at VW engines again was that starters were developed for them.
Hank