New Member First Post

[Gliderboy]

Hello all,

This is my first post and first off I'd like to say hello. I have recently decided to persue flying lessons again and I am exploring the idea of one day owning a Taildragger. I have always been one who loves nostalgic airplanes over the latest greatest Composite or run of the mill Cessna. I use to fly Sailplanes about 10 years ago but due to getting married and buying a home I had to give it up. Well sadly now I am I have recently been divorced, but one upside is now I dont have anyone telling me I cant fly. So I started back up with sailplanes, met a girl who flys a Cherokee 140 and now I am looking at getting my power rating. My goals in aviation are more for fun so to me the ideal plane is an old taildragger that I can use to fly to the places where I can fly sailplanes.

I have been looking at planes that fill this niche in a price range I could possibly afford and it seems like the Taylorcraft and the Luscomb 8E fit the bill. Having come from sailplanes I'd prefer having a plane with a stick over a yoke but only becuase I have never had any experience flying a plane with a yoke so I am open to that as well. I really like the L2M for its tandem seating as well as the inclusion of spoilers which would be fun. The luscomb offers an all metal structure which is more durable for the weather, but I prefer the look of a tube and fabric structure. Also I am a fairly big guy at 6'4" and 230lbs and I fear I may be to tall. I have read some taylorcraft flying reports that mention having to duck down to see out the side windows.

So I suppose my questions are will someone my size fit in either the Tandem or side by side Taylorcraft. Also I am located a few miles from the Van Nuys Airport and am curious if there is a Taylorcraft anywhere within driving distance of me to at least sit in to see if I would fit. Also anyone on this forum have any familiarity with Luscombs and can give any comparisons? Only thing that would push me towards a Luscomb is if I had to keep it on the ramp outside instead of in a hanger and if so an aluminum structure would do better in that environmnet. I am unsure if I will fit in a luscomb either.

Best regards,

Marc Webster

[Ray36048]

Re: New Member First Post

The first thing I would do is go talk to some instructors in your area. It has been a few years since I took my private test. But, I don't think you can do your training in something like a T-Craft. You will most likely have to rent an airplane from an FBO to get your ticket.

One other thing you could look at is getting a "Sport Pilot" ticket. More restricted than a private, but certainly would work for the type of airplane you are interested in.

As far as letting anything sit outside, don't do it. Tube and fabric or spam cans do not do well over the long term being exposed to the sun and weather.

[N96337]

Re: New Member First Post

As far as your size.... Richard Boyer's a pretty good sized guy and he jumps (well ok...not jumps...more like slides) in and out of his Tcraft pretty well. The guy I bought mine from (24 years ago) was 325+ and he made it in and out....albeit not all that gracefully.
VictorBravo is an old sailplane guy and he's on here quite often...
I think it'd be a great plane for you!
John

[BMayes]

Re: New Member First Post

I was a glider pilot first. I love my L2 and she definately has more room than my Blanik L33, and probably even more room than a SGS 2-33.

[lfries]

Re: New Member First Post

I don't see any problem getting a Private Pilot Lic. in a Taylorcraft. The only problem might be finding a taildragger CFI and DPE. If the sport pilot fits your needs it should be a less expensive way to go and any taildragger SEL CFI can give you the required instruction.

[Pearson]

Re: New Member First Post

Marc,

Welcome! The Taylorcraft is a very good trainer. It will teach you the basics of flight and make you a good pilot.

I would suggest you seek a Taylorcraft that has the larger C85 engine and the skylight mod. The skylight vastly improves visibility and the C85 helps when lifting a couple of good sized people.

As far as getting in and out, it is a matter of technique more than size. I am 6'1" and have found this technique best for me in getting in & out of my BC12D. Entering the left side, I put my left foot flat on the ground and put my right foot through the door and onto the floor. I stick my head in and reach in with my right hand to grab the tubes in the windshield. Then I pull my butt up and over what I call the scrotum bar. As I enter, I keep my right leg extended so that when I get my butt in, it is up near the top of the seatback. This is important so that I can retract my left leg and get it inside. If you sit down with one leg hanging out, you will have a hard time getting it in. After all the appendages are inside, THEN I slide down into the seat. When I get out, the first thing I do is slide up the back of the seat so that my legs are extended. That way I can step out with my left leg and basically reverse the process.

I have taken passengers as tall as 6'6" in my plane. But when doing so, I took the seat cushion out and just sat on the canvas seat sling. For a more permanent setup you can remove the seat cushion and take a turn or two out of the front part of the seat sling. Usually there is a bar or rod that the front of the sling is wound onto. By unwinding it, you are lowering the level at which you sit.

The L-2 might be easier to get in & out of, but they are usually more expensive than the B models. I have never flown the Luscombe, but have heard they are not as forgiving on landing as a Taylorcraft.

Good luck!

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: New Member First Post

I took all my training in my 41 BC-12-65 and I was 6'3" 220# at the time with an over 200# WELL over 6' instructor. Once we got the boarding process worked out the only problem was the one not flying really needed to put their inside arm around the one at the controls. That meant no fast corrections on the engine controls. It was never a problem. He didn't make power mistakes and I did what he told me when I did. If that causes a problem you have the wrong instructor, not the wrong plane.
As for visibility, all the old taildragers SUCK! Don't worry about it. You get used to it very fast. The first thing you learn is to lift a wing before you turn. It's second nature in no time. I fly sailplanes too and EVERYTHING feels blind after that big bubble canopy. Want a REAL shock? Try going from an F-16 to a modern airliner! In the Falcon you feel like you are going to fall out of the cockpit. In an airliner it's like looking at the world through toilet paper tubes. I actually like the visibility in my Taylorcraft and it isn't a problem at all (even after sailplanes). When I get my 41 back up I am really looking forward to driving to the airport for a quick flight to the sailplane field for a day of soaring, followed by the flight back to the car.
Now for the BIG one. Taylorcrafts use "Hemingway" starters (you know, he wrote "A Farewell to Arms"). If you are going to fly Taylorcrafts, you need to learn to hand prop. That IS NOT a problem! It's perfectly safe when done right. The danger is when anyone ELSE wants to help you prop. Unless you know from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with the person, NEVER let someone else prop your plane. Blood and body parts REALLY mess up the paint!
The last thing is the graceful exit. For us big guys it takes a while to learn. When I first bought mine my method was to open the door, lean left, and land on the ramp like a fist full of wet mortar (usually with at least one foot still tangled with the seat belt inside the cockpit). The step does a BRUTAL left jab to the kidney on impact often resulting in wet pants to top off the display. After getting your leg free, crawl away from the fuselage and drag yourself to your feet. DON'T use the struts to pull yourself up! This whole show is particularly entertaining to the two guys in suits sitting at the airport café watching the landings. You know, the guys wearing the white ball caps with the dark blue "FAA" on the front. Just tell them you are drunk. They never know how to handle that.
Seriously (yes I did fall out of the cockpit the first time, but the FAA wasn't there) just get some pointers from the previous owner. His method won't work for you, but he WILL help you figure it out quickly and won't laugh (to hard) at you, he wants your money.
No joke this time, your girlfriend WILL put on a great show if she enters or exits in a skirt. The only solution to that one is to stand by the door and discreetly block the "view" or warn her ahead of time ( which will have her ASKING for you to "help her exit gracefully". Don't drop her. She won't think it's funny. If she flys already she won't have a problem.
Final word, if you do get a Taylorcraft you will really fall in love. They are the best buy for the money around. It flys a lot like a 2-33 with fuel fired lift and I like them so much I bought two!
Hank

Get a hangar and store it inside, whatever you buy.

[DanBrown]

Re: New Member First Post

Hi Marc and welcome to Taylorcraft land. I initially took my training in Aeroncas with a stick,but have flown both stick and wheels over the years -- it really doesn't make a lot of difference.

To find out a lot about Taylorcrafts there is a very knowledgeable member on this forum who flies out of Whitman field in the north valley -- Bill Berle http://vb.taylorcraft.org/member.php?u=527. Take a look at his many posts and try to contact him. He's owned many Taylorcrafts.

Good flying in whatever you decide.

[Gliderboy]

Re: New Member First Post

Hey All,

Thanks for the great replies. So as much as I would love to learn in a taildrager I pretty much resigned myself to having to learn in something more conventional like a Cessna or Cherokee. If I coudl find a CFI who taught in a taildrager near me I would be very interested, but I have looked and have yet to find one. If anyone knows one... My main goal with my question was to get feedback to see if I would even fit in a taylorcraft. I dont fit in a lot of planes due to my height so I figured I'd ask those in the know. My goal would be to start my power lessons in a month or so. I recently returned to sailplanes and rejoined my old club and I am currently working back to curency so the Power license needs to take a back seat for a few months. However working on my power rating is something i can do mid-week since the glider field is 80 miles away so its only a weekend thng so maybe I can do both concurently. My girlfriend will be taking her flying test and Oral exam next week and I am sure I will get some experience along the way as well.

With the divorce, I am gettign a second chance at aviation and I am finaly getting to do the things I was asked to put off for so long. So somewhere in the not too distant future will be a taildrager with my name on it. With all I have read during my research I am feeling that the L2 is more my style. The idea of flying low and slow along the beach and canyons sounds amazing.

I think I will look Bill up and see if I can see his plane one day. Whiteman is fairly close.

Thanks again everyone,

Marc

[VictorBravo]

Re: New Member First Post

Gliderboy you can come see the naked carcass of a T-craft at my hangar at Whiteman anytime. It's not flying, and has a long way to go before it does. My last T-craft just arrived in Alaska the other day so I unfortunately cannot take you for an intro flight in one. We have about four T-crafts on the airport now, and one very knowledgeable IA mechanic owns one of them. I can probably arrange for you to get a T-craft flight in one of the airplanes... DEFINITELY fly one before you buy one of any type airplane. Fly the Luscombe, fly the T-craft, fly whatever you are interested in.

The Taylorcraft can accurately be compared to a side-by-side self-launching Schweizer 2-33. It is definitely the best possible light sport/ trainer/sport / antique-ish airplane for a glider pilot to transition into, bar none. More importantly, it is the best value per dollar out of all the old taildraggers. The Aeronca Chief is still cheaper but it does not have the performance and is probably somewhat less thrilling or interesting. If you are thinking about going from sailplanes to (lightweight) powered airplanes, the T-craft is likely the right move.

The visibility is less in "normal" powerplanes than it is in sailplanes. No way around it. The T-craft has less visibility than most, however adding the skylight upgrade solves a big part of the problem.

Flying a sailplane you already know how to use a rudder, which many power-only pilots do not. So you will pick up the skills of flying a T-craft faster than other people will.

I'll be glad to offer any assistance, advice, help you find a good airplane, etc. etc. etc. that you want. I've owned 4 flyers and now have one basket case, so I can answer most of the questions. Owning a Taylorcraft is highly highly rewarding on many levels. There are things the airplane can do more efficiently and a lot more cost effectively than most other airplanes. You WILL get more overall hours per dollar in a T-craft than in almost any other flying machine imaginable.

There are many requirements or types of missions that the T-craft is not suited for. Live in Woodland Hills and have a business in Chicago, and want to take your executives to a meeting in New York... forget the T-cart. 250 pound pilot, 200 pound passenger, 4 hunting rifles 2 tents and half a dead moose? only a small percentage of Taylorcrafts are set up to handle that.

Poor, unemployed, single, living out of the change jar for the 99 cent burgers, drive a 76 Mercury that runs on 5 cylinders, and you NEED to get flying again on a budget? Welcome to heaven and get ready to start filling out the blank lines in your logbook!

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: New Member First Post

Two things I missed in my prior post;
1) Transition from stick to wheel is a non issue (not so much the other way around) so you are good.
2) Take a few chunks of foam about 1.5" thick to sit on and pull the seats in the "ride plane" if the owner is short. If he has a 4" seat cushion you are going to be beating your head on the top tubes. A little foam makes a big difference over sitting on the bare sling and your host isn't going to want to unwind the canvas to give one ride. If your host is over 6' you will be golden.

Hank

[fearofpavement]

Re: New Member First Post

Hank, I about wet my pants when reading your description of exiting the airplane. I have less exuses getting in and out of the
t-craft as I am only 68" tall (per my recent medical). However, having given countless rides in the T-craft, I have personally observed every possible variation of getting out (which for some reason seems to be more complicated than getting in) When observing a particularily humorous exit I usually comment "And that's why we don't wear parachutes" as they typically ask that question on entering. Even with careful instruction in how to do it people always come up with their own variation. My primary concern is to keep them from grabbing all the handholds that aren't.

Anyway, as previously suggested, fly in a T-craft before you purchase one. Another comment is that while all of your training can't be in the T, there is no reason that about 75% of it can't be done in it. Also, you will want to show your insurance company some time in type so you may as well do it all at once.