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**barnstmr** · 05-29-2009, 11:07

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

Bruce,
You have a great attitude. Welcome to the forum. I hope you find a good buy on a Taylorcraft and I can assure you that it would fit your expectations very well. My wife loves to fly with me. Have yours check out this story on my weblog... click here

That looks like a sweet little airplane in the photos. But you certainly should have someone give it a once over and look over the records for you. Most A&P/IA qualified folks should be able to tell you if the records seem in order. Ask if the AD's are current. You may have heard about the recent ones on strut inspection and strut attach fittings (to look for corrosion). If the airplane was ever a seaplane it is more likely to have corrosion issues.

That engine is fairly high time, but those compression numbers look fine. Also, I wouldn't buy it unless the annual inspection has been renewed by a qualified IA at the current owner's expense not yours. Or at least have a list of discrepancies from an annual inspection that you can negotiate through with the owner. My humble 2 cents.

Keep us informed and have fun!

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**mhorowit** · 05-29-2009, 17:01

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

Bruce -Maybe someone will show me how to point to a thread???
but if you'll search for "Good buy? What to look for?" you'll find a good thread.
Next step might be to ask DC-Pilots for the name of an A&P close to Charlottesville who know rag and tube. -Mike

**N96337** · 05-29-2009, 17:19

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

Barnstormer gave you some good advice there! I try to tell customers that an annual by their mechanic is the best way to inspect the aircraft for purchase. That's a nice looking plane, and the only thing I see that I'm not wild about is that it's been covered for 6 years and most of the inspection grommets aren't opened on the wings.
John

**gnflyn** · 05-30-2009, 16:32

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

Excuse my curiousity, but what are they asking for a Tcraft like that? I didn't see an asking price...

**Merlinspop** · 05-30-2009, 17:10

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

As long as you promise not to swoop on me... He's asking just under $19k.

**VictorBravo** · 05-31-2009, 00:42

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

I do not think it is nearly worth $19,000 in this economy, with only the original 12 gallon capacity and none of the desirable upgrades.

Someone made an inexcusable error by rebuilding the airplane (apparently nicely) without adding at least one wing tank. Moreover, the long term value of the airplane is affected because if you decide you want to upgrade the airplane to 85 HP (which you will likely want to do sooner or later), the combination of no wing tanks and none of the 85HP upgrade modifications means that you would likely be re-covering the wings even if the Stits is in great condition.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that Forrest Barber (pres. of the Taylorcraft Foundation and most knowledgeable single source) mentioned once that all of the BC-12's came out with at least one wing tank. I do NOT know if this applies to a 1942 airplane... but the limited fuel capacity will play a part in the overall usefulness of the airplane whether you put in a larger engine or not later.

So, if you are a stickler for originality, and you like the idea of a stock antique, it might be a great airplane. It certainly will fly well and be very enjoyable to own and fly. However, if you are concerned about performance and utility, making 300-500 mile trips, etc. then the following factors make this T-craft a little LESS desirable than another T-craft:

Wood Prop (less performance and more maintenance)
No wing tanks (less flight range)
No 85HP upgrades (many buyers would choose another airplane that at least had the wing modifications done to leave their options open)

All that being said, it looks like a nice and beautiful restoration from the outside. Again if you are valuing at this as an accurate antique restoration because that is what turns you on, it is very very attractive and might be a great choice. If the utility and performance of the airplane is the prime motivator, then there are other Taylorcrafts that already have the features you might want in the near future.

As far as the economy, I just FLEW home a 1956 Cessna 172 that needs paint but is otherwise pretty darn good for $5000++ less than the guys wants for the T-craft.

I strongly second the advice about having YOUR mechanic do an annual or a thorough pre-buy inspection. What you want to do is put the mechanic who signed off the last 2 annuals in a chair, shine a strong light in his face, and ask him pointedly how he annual'ed it without looking through those inspection holes.

**Merlinspop** · 05-31-2009, 06:08

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

Thanks. I'm going out to look at it today. I'll ask how his AI has managed to inspect the spars and control cables during his annuals.

I agree that he's asking a bit much, but then again, the ad indicates that he's eager to sell. I'll see how flexible he is. Since it's out of annual already, I'll insist that the pre-buy is a an annual, by the shop of my choice. Any airworthiness issue should be his dime and we'll discuss any items the inspection reveals that 'oughta' be done.

Thanks again everyone.

Bruce

**mhorowit** · 05-31-2009, 07:49

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

I was asking about prices some years ago and Bill opined that if you paid 20k for a Tcraft, the owner had to show you all the trophies he won.

I paid 15,500 for the one previous to my current and the crew thought it a bit high. - Mike

**Merlinspop** · 05-31-2009, 17:59

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

Well, I don't know what to think. There were 2 or 3 open inspection holes per wing and several still unopened. What I could see inside looked good. Overall, it looked pretty good. Good enough to try to negotiate an agreeable price.

But...

I don't know how much I liked flying it. I'm sure I was expecting too much out of it and moreso myself. I had never been at the controls of a taildragger before, and hadn't flown anything for about three and a half years. Back then I was flying a '50 something 172. The wind was very brisk. He let me taxi (a CFI, he) and I could barely stay on the taxiway. He handled takeoff and climbout then handed it over to me. I was all over the sky, the ball being magnetically repelled by the two lines defining the center. Not that I could see it. The tube was pretty dark and the black ball was hard to see. So I stopped looking for it and started trying to watch the nose wipe across the horizon and feel the plane with my backside. It settled down eventually but by then I wasn't enjoying myself. I flew the pattern and had to point the nose perpendicular to the runway to stay remotely close to the 45 entry.

So I don't know. Driving home I was thinking maybe I shouldn't bother trying to fly again. But now I'm feeling better about it. Visibility out the front was great. It wasn't as bad I thought it would be out the sides. Easy enough to lift a wing now and then and take a peek. The plane is beautiful. Not perfect, but it is 67 yrs old.

The engine had been in something else and it's log dates back to 46. The airframe logs go back to 74 and other paperwork longer. Would have been nice to have absolutely pristine logs, but I wonder if these are more the norm (what does an overhaul on an a-65 run anyway?).

Gotta run. Thanks for all the feedback. Time to think about it.

Bruce

**Merlinspop** · 06-01-2009, 06:54

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

Okay...I'm done pouting and whining.

A friend suggested that the only thing I omitted in stacking the deck against myself was I forgot to put a blindfold on. Strong, variable winds, completely unfamiliar airplane and a thick layer of rust. I was very precise in the Tomahawk I trained in way back when and was reaching that level of proficiency with the old 172s in the club I belonged to. I was just expecting too much.

I was pleased enough to want to continue the process. First I have to comply with 'da boss's requirement to sell off the Gold Wing to free up monthly expenses moolah. Then, well, everything else.

B

**gnflyn** · 06-01-2009, 08:40

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

I wasn't going to, but I think I will throw my two cents in. I have had my 46 Tcart for quite a few years. Last covered 20 + years ago with Poly, still great shape and solid. Of course she almost never gets wet, and is snug in the hanger.......I had to bring it to Florida from Virgina when I moved, the 12 gallon tank was not really an issue. I can go 200 miles and still have a generous reserve. Besides my butt tells me its time to get out after 2 hours and walk anyway.
I think the only real negative with the one you are looking at is the lack of a skylite, I have the Gilberti full skylite and I use it all the time, I have flown a few Tcarts without a skylite and did feel nearly as secure in my traffic scans.
That being said, I love my Tcraft. Just back a few minutes ago from a sweet morning cruise, off from ZPH straight west to Tarpon Springs and out over the Gulf as the sponge boats were heading out. Down to 600' and cruise down the beaches to north of Tampa, then back following I-4 east and home.
It doesn't get much better.....

**Merlinspop** · 06-01-2009, 09:07

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

Thanks. I know that if I do buy it and begin training and flying regularly, it'll be a whole lot better. Yesterday it was like my brain was full of molasses.

**Pearson** · 06-01-2009, 18:27

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

Bruce,

I am sorry, but I have to agree with your friend's comment about the lack of a blindfold. The Taylorcraft has one of the lightest wing loadings of any light plane. You pay for that during turbulence, but you are thankful for it if you ever lose power and are trying to glide to a safe landing.

When you said in a previous post, "I was very precise in the Tomahawk I trained in way back when...", the thought came to me that after you train just a little in the Taylorcraft you will be a much better pilot than you thought you were back in your Tomahawk days. I am not saying that you weren't a very good pilot in your Tomahawk. I just think that if you commit just a fraction of the training time to the Taylorcraft you will be an even BETTER pilot.

When I bought my Taylorcraft I had compared it to the Piper Cub. What sold me on the Taylorcraft was the lack of ADs. It is not just the initial purchase price you have to consider. Even considering the last two expensive ADs on the Taylorcraft, it is still cheaper in that regard than a cub, or most other small tube and fabric two seaters.

I promise you that the feeling you will have when you learn to master that rudder and roll the mains onto freshly cut grasss will be BETTER than any feeling you had in a Tomahawk.

**Merlinspop** · 06-02-2009, 06:10

Re: New Member; maybe owner soon

Richard - I absolutely agree. 172s are as easy to fly as dropping a brick, and the T-hawk isn't too far from that either. If I can sell the 'Wing and get a T-craft (this one or another down the road), I'm positive it'll make me a far better pilot than I ever was. I just have to adopt the mindset that I'm a beginner all over again.

Anyone what a cherry Gold Wing?

Bruce

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