In the days of CA- xx

[mhorowit]

When the Tcrafts came out, they were built using CA-18(?) (precursor to AC-43.13).

Did the CA allow for splitting a tube lengthwise to reduce its OD so it could be used as an internal splice? - MikeH

[Garry Crookham]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

Mike
I suspect you are referring to Civil Aeronautics Manual 18. Go here: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgccab.nsf/0/6786eb259f50483586256fbf006ad47c/$FILE/CAM215.pdf

Garry Crookham
N5112M
Tulsa

[mhorowit]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

Garry - that is indeed CAA-18; I have a copy, but thanks for the link.
The question remains -- can I make an inner sleeve by reducing the size of a piece of the tubing of the same dimensions of the outer sleeve i.e. cutting a 1/4" longitudinal slice out of a piece of outer-sleeve material, reduce the OD, weld it, grind it flat and use it as if I had purchased a piece of smaller OD tubing? - MikeH

[Pearson]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

Mike

Edited for reasons of "domestic tranquility"??? Must be a story there!

I looked in AC43.13 and did not see anything about splitting tubes to make a splice. Why would you want to do that? Isn't it simpler to just buy the correct size tubing? Even if it were an acceptable practice, I would think it would be an inferior joint due to the varying diameter of your resized tube. You would basically end up with an oval shaped inner tube. Not to mention the amount of work it would take to split the tube, grind the edges down, and then reweld it all.

[Larry Lyons]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

Mike

Edited for reasons of "domestic tranquility"??? Must be a story there!

Unless his wife is related to mine; thinks she is a dam good speller and he is like me, one of the worst spellers to walk away with a high school diploma.
Larry

[VictorBravo]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

Mike, since you would be repairing one piece of aircraft tubing (by the "welded repair" method), then using that repaired piece of tubing to repair another part of the aircraft, I believe you could make a case that the repair fits within the scope and intent of CAM 18 and 43.13.

Buying a correct telescoping size tube is of course easier, but if you have a reason to do it that way and perform the repair correctly I cannot see any legitimate loss of strength.

Anyone having a problem with that type of repair would be picking the fly poop out of the pepper IMHO.

Bill

[mhorowit]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

Mike

Edited for reasons of "domestic tranquility"??? Must be a story there!.

I think I removed a typo, and since I had to say something... had no idea the comments would be viewable by any but the SysAdmin! Glad I kept it clean!

I looked in AC43.13 and did not see anything about splitting tubes to make a splice. Why would you want to do that? Isn't it simpler to just buy the correct size tubing? Even if it were an acceptable practice, I would think it would be an inferior joint due to the varying diameter of your resized tube. You would basically end up with an oval shaped inner tube. Not to mention the amount of work it would take to split the tube, grind the edges down, and then reweld it all.

Two reasons: A) on two occasions I've ordered tubing only to find I've screwed up somehow; dispite checking and recheck, I get the wrong freaking tubing. Nearly oval; if you beat it carefully it will slide nice and snuggly into the outer tube; recall you are allowed lots of slop with that inner sleeve. And I have the time.

B) When I want the tubing, I don't have it and don't wanna wait (to discover yet again I've ordered the wrong size)

- MikeH

[Pearson]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

Mike,

I go through the frustration of not having what I need a LOT. I know it gets old, but that is part of the restoration process.

As far as getting the correct tubing, do you have a dial/digital calipers? I bought a cheap one from Harbor Freight a few years ago and now find I couldn't get by without it.

[mhorowit]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

Mike,

I go through the frustration of not having what I need a LOT. I know it gets old, but that is part of the restoration process.

As far as getting the correct tubing, do you have a dial/digital calipers? I bought a cheap one from Harbor Freight a few years ago and now find I couldn't get by without it.

Yup; never leave home without it - MIke

[N96337]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

I don't understand why you're looking in the CAM. The repairs you do will be done in accordance with AC43.13, and really have no referrence to CAM. Just order the right material and do it the way it's supposed to be done, and all will be MUCH easier, when it comes time to submit the 337.
John

[mhorowit]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

I don't understand why you're looking in the CAM. The repairs you do will be done in accordance with AC43.13, and really have no referrence to CAM. Just order the right material and do it the way it's supposed to be done, and all will be MUCH easier, when it comes time to submit the 337.
John

I was under the impression that since this beast got approved under the CAM, I had the option of using those rules; yep, things probably have improved, but I was looking for something that said it was OK to split the tube.

'time to submit the 337' - interesting. What I've done so far is repaired the vertical stab (which required welding), replace both aileron spars, and replaced (welding required) the wing bow-tip. What happened for the stab and ailerons was I presented them to my AI, explained what I had done, he looked it over and wrote in my maintenance log "Inspected Lt & Rt Ailerons. OK to prime and cover ' and the same for the tailfeathers. So how does the 337 fit in, as I expect to go piece-by-piece thru the project this way? - Mike

[N96337]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

Mike,
When it's all done, he'll most likely "bunch" the repairs/replacements on 337's or maybe even on just one. I prefer to separate them myself, but some people do everything on the same one. At that point, your IA will have to reference all the work that was done, materials used, and substantiate the data that the repairs were based on. That will all have to be in the logs as well.
John

[NY86]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

Mike: The plane needs only meet the regulations under which it was certified, but practices are not similarly grandfathered. AC43-13 is applicable to all [small] aircraft regardless of the certification basis.

[Garry Crookham]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

Mike,

John and John are giving you good advise, and I would like to add one thing....make sure all your repairs are well documented (in an FAA acceptable way) since many times the original IA supervising the project will become unavailable when the project is well along. Switching to an new A&P/IA can be a stressful event if the documentation isn't there to support the project, i.e. having to remove the cover to inspect the repairs, can be very painful!
Good luck

Garry Crookham

[n6346m]

Re: In the days of CA- xx

Speaking of AC 43.13, I cannot find it on the FAA's web site. It's not even listed in their index of Advisory Circulars. Where did it go? I have a very old copy of -1A and -2A and I was trying to see if there were any new revisions and couldn't find anything.