Struts

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Struts

The struts are ten feet long. You'd need a five foot borescope to see it all from both ends. Since you can only gain access from one end (and that's the rear adjustable strut), you need a ten foot borescope.

How to get any borescope inside a front strut to the original design beats me.

Good luck, but I think you're flogging a dead horse.

AD's are a pain, but it's part of flying. Pay the $2000 and have done with it.

I have flogged many a dead horse, sometimes they get up and I ride them away.

Sorry paying $2,000.00 for stupidity is not on my agenda. I see no reason to throw away a good pair of struts just because it's easier. As my dad always said when I did not eat all my food, "You could feed a chinaman for a week on that". I think even by todays standards $2,000.00 would go along way even for a whole family.

Dan

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Struts

OK, sealing with epoxy is something one of my co-workers (also an engineer) and I discussed earlier but figured that although simpler to do, it would be harder to convince the Feds it was equivalent. We also discussed materials that could be used to fill the whole strut interior to prevent water and oxygen from reaching the interior (after being painted of course). None of this has been looked at in detail (yet).
If you can pull this off, it will be a lot less expensive and easier to do than welded modification of the struts. Robert is right though, a 10' bore scope is going to be tough to find and we will still need a drawing for the end inspection (got to know what you are looking at, bore scopes can really tumble your gyros when they are in areas like that). I have never seen a 10' bore scope and I worked with an exceptionally well equipped NDI shop for a couple of decades (doesn't mean they don't exist, but we never needed one that long). Maybe your NDI guys can help find one or provide another method.
Go ahead and flog that horse. maybe it will get up and you will be the hero. If not, don't be discouraged. It was worth a try. In the mean time, I am keeping my struts in the store room. Nice and dry, awaiting a chance to fly again. If you need help give a yell. I will try to get to the barn this weekend and see if I have a busted strut with intact ends to play with. If not, there should be plenty of them on bad struts out there. Anybody already cut theirs?
You can't succeed if you don't try.
Hank

[Garry Crookham]

Re: Struts

Dan
You talk of an AMOC and then an owner produced part...two different subjects. A modified OEM strut is not an owner produced part. Modifying an OEM strut and having it approved as an AMOC is possible but what will be required for approval will not be cost effective. Having delt with the FAA on AMOC's, field approvals and STC's (I'm an A&P/IA) it's obvious to me that you don't have a clue as to how the FAA functions. I wish you luck and hope you prove me wrong but after 45 years of dealing with the FAA I think I have a good feel for what will be required.

Garry Crookham
N5112M
Tulsa

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Struts

Dan
You talk of an AMOC and then an owner produced part...two different subjects. A modified OEM strut is not an owner produced part. Modifying an OEM strut and having it approved as an AMOC is possible but what will be required for approval will not be cost effective. Having delt with the FAA on AMOC's, field approvals and STC's (I'm an A&P/IA) it's obvious to me that you don't have a clue as to how the FAA functions. I wish you luck and hope you prove me wrong but after 45 years of dealing with the FAA I think I have a good feel for what will be required.

Garry Crookham
N5112M
Tulsa

I agree two different subjects. I started out thinking I would have to make new struts. After some research I found just using the old struts and sealing them should work. Going even farther I was looking at trying to get the borescope idea through. So really three different subjects.

I agree it may not be easy. I also know that if I do the research then hand it over to either the AOPA or EAA it has a better chance. I also know that if I can get a DER onboard it is not that hard to get it through the FAA at that point.

It has not cost anything but time so far and although you do not really know me "Yet " I have a good history of getting things done for very little money. The upshot of it all in the end is that I will be much wiser and maybe not $2,000.00 poorer. Wiser being much more valuable.

Dan

[Mark Julicher]

Re: Struts

I have cut the ends off of one front and one aft strut. These were red-tagged, and upon opening them I found them to be in good condition.

If these are useful to this effort you can have them.

[Guest]

Re: Struts

Dan, how did you plan to seal the top of the struts?

Dave

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Struts

I have cut the ends off of one front and one aft strut. These were red-tagged, and upon opening them I found them to be in good condition.

If these are useful to this effort you can have them.

I found a set where I work, but the smaller of the two is smaller than the ones off my 46. Probably off an older Model. I think they will still work for what I need.

It would not be a bad idea to have yours if you said they were red tagged but found after cutting them they were good. If you like I can pay for shipping. I can seal them also maybe with a different product so we have a couple of different things.

Daniel Michaels
23823 LaRa Rd
Grantsburg, WI 54840

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Struts

Dan, how did you plan to seal the top of the struts?

Dave

On the one that has the bolt hole only. Use an epoxy an fill the cavity to 1" past the bolt hole. Tape in place till dry. remove tape drill hole through epoxy. Reinstall bolt.

On the one that has the adjuster. Remove the adjuster and fill with epoxy. Drill and ream out to metal surfaces. Reinstall adjuster.

Fill small holes with a self tapping screw or Self sealing pull rivet.

By the way you can do this as per the AC as a minor altercation with just a log book entry. This will extend your chances that your struts will be good forever even if you have to inspect them every four years. Make sure that there is no moisture in the strut before you seal them.

I am working on a procedure to clean and dry the inside this weekend.

Dan

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Struts

I cut open the old struts. From the looks of them on the outside I thought they were going ot be bad on the inside. Not much sign of corrosion just some minor surface rust.

Spar with the bolt hole is a sealed strut except for the two small holes. There is a plate below the bolt hole that seals the rest of the strut. Just seal the two small holes and it would be sealed.

So really to seal the other strut one could order a sealed adjuster or make a solid adjuster. and seal the two small holes.

Dan

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Struts

Give it up guys ; when Dan gets this all done, I hope he reports back to us on his success. or failure.

[Mark Julicher]

Re: Struts

Dan,
If you just want the cut off ends, I can send them to you easily and I'll pay the postage as a public service contribution. If you want both of the full length cut off struts I'll have to crate and freight them (which I can't afford just now.)

Let me know here or PM me and we can get hooked up by telephone and work something.

[mhorowit]

Re: Struts

Would someone define "seal"?
Wouldn't it be funny if cleaning the inside and then coating the insides of the strut with 2-part epoxy would constitute 'sealing".
(speaking without having kept up with the thread and truely ignorant in this matter) - MikeH

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Struts

Would someone define "seal"?
Wouldn't it be funny if cleaning the inside and then coating the insides of the strut with 2-part epoxy would constitute 'sealing".
(speaking without having kept up with the thread and truely ignorant in this matter) - MikeH

Mark all I need is the ends, if you could include the red tag also that would be great.

Mike go to FAA site and look up AC 43.13-1B Chapter 6-42. Read the whole chapter it is very informative.

What you are trying to do is eliminate any water or air getting inside the tube. Water and or air sitting inside a tube will create rust if allowed incontact with metal. Sealing the inside of the tube with inhibitor works if the drainholes are kept open and there is no compromise of the inhibitor,(scratch, crack ...) If you seal the tube so that water and air cannot enter you eliminate the problem, any corrosion has to come from the outside where it can be seen.

You have levels of protection.

1: Drainholes no rust inhibitor. works as long as the drain holes are kept open and you are not in a highly corrosive environment.
2: Rust inhibitor with drainholes. Works better and probably good enough for a non corrosive environment.
2: Seal the tube so that any corrosion has to come from the outside. Best for highly corrosive environment because you can easily keep it cleaned off and can see any rust forming.

The FAA is taking the stand that pilots were not taking care to see that the holes were kept open and that corrosoin hinhibitor was not being applied in highly corrosive areas. Their solution was to have the struts checked every 4 years or replace with sealed struts that can only rust from the outside. If the planes would have been taken care of the way they should have been the struts more than likely would not have failed. As you can see that most of the struts are passing inspection. I am betting the ones that don't have had plugged holes or have been in a highly corrosive environment and should have had the struts sealed.

Dan

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Struts

I talked with Andy at the FAA this morning. He is incharge of approving AMOC for the Taylorcraft.

He is going to allow the use of airworthy struts as long as they are sealed.

They need to be sealed permanently. Ths means that I cannot just seal the adjusting bolt. His reasoning is someone in the future could put in an old adjuster that was not sealed. This now will be the hardest part to seal.

It is just going to require data that shows that the process used to seal is permanent. Some others have tried to get by with silicone. I would agree that this is not permanent. I will now start contacting epoxy manufactures for data that would be equivalent to steal. Or at least show that it is permanent and cannot be removed without taking the strut apart which is what they are looking for.

Dan

[Dan Michaels]

Re: Struts

I can seal both ends with steel. The adjusting end has enough threads to install a non removeable plug. this can be drilled and pinned or cut with a slot that can only go one way so you would not be able to remove it.

The other end only needs a hole drilled and bushing installed and welded in.

I am still going to work on the epoxy method because it will be easier, cheaper, and will work just as well. I just need proof.

Dan