Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

[flyken]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

I should add that when you are on final in cold weather the reason why the carb heat doesn't help too much is the engine isn't preducing much heat so you don't get much heat to the carb. I sure if you thought about it a bit you would know what I am talking about.

[N96337]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

Like I said before John and everyone.... I was going to reply, but saw that there was no use. His mind's made up (which is fine) and the misconceptions are deep rooted.
John

[flyken]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

Oh and yeah I am sure the guy with the luscombe knows his stuff and is a good pilot as well. No argument the stromberg can do a good job and yes if maintained properly you shouldn't have a prob. But again you can have probs with that mixture control and they are more maintenance than a precision. After years with the stromberg I'm happier with the precision so I guess I will stay happy in my ignorance. There are alot of things one can do improve performance on the little continentals. Unfortunately they aren't all approved which is why if I had it do all over I'd probably go experimental today. I think the guys in Alaska over years have done alot of innovative stuff as well. I'm not a tinkerer or innovator I just like to get back into the bush.

[flyken]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

My mind is made up - ok. So far we've figured out I don't know how to use mixture, throttle, or carb heat all because I said my throttle works better in cold with the precision than the stromberg. I also claim to get better mileage and can control the cyl temp better. Oh and I also claim I can climb longer without overheating the cylinders. I don't own shares in Stromberg or Precision. So either my Stromberg was in terrible shape all those years, the Stromberg is too complex for me to fly all those years, or maybe just maybe the precision actually is a better carb. I am not a carb expert nor do I pretend to be. I am not an economic expert either but somehow I am not broke. I am not an engine expert but I know the 0290 lycoming has trouble seating the rings. I can't really tell you why either. Also no one so far except me has offered an explanation why so many Stromberg carb mixture controls are tied off. I've found the precision to be better, it is anecdotal information and I am happy with it. I guess that makes me dumber than your average deer because your average deer knows to avoid humans instead of trying to communicate with them. Oh,and that guy with the Luscombe maybe he could put a precision carb on and see if he gets better/worse or same mileage. What rpm was he at and what prop?

[NY86]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

How did we get started talking about Lycomings and carb heat?

As far as no one offering an explanation as to why so may are wired rich, I did, twice, I think. Problems with student pilots pulling it at the wrong time and (drum roll) it isn't really necessary for most conditions. I know this from conversations with flight instructors who were instructing before I was old enough to see over the panel. There never was any rush to wire them rich because they didn't work as designed. No AD, no service bulletin, just a bunch of J3 types looking for a less stressful teaching platform. For that matter, there was a whole series of NA-S3 carbs that had no mixture control. Didn't have one, didn't need it.

As far as maintenance, on a hours of maintenance per hour of use, the Marvels are way ahead. Strombergs routinely go to the engine's TBO, and often don't even get touched then. Marvels on the other hand rarely do (my experience as an A&P, your mileage may vary.) Until you've dealt with a pilot who's suffered a frozen throttle due to a failed accelerator pump, you haven't lived. Beats a little dribble on the floor any day.

You said
You should do what is right for you I will do what I believe is right for me.

I agree. Just don't manufacture a bunch of science in an attempt to convince the rest of us we're fools. Your opinion is just that, an opinion, not backed up by facts. The mixture control is not problematic and works as designed. It does not regularly plug up with dirt. In fact, the only common failure is leakage around the shaft seal, which results in an inability to lean, not an excessively lean (or rich) mixture.

BTW, Continental went to the Marvel carb because Bendix never made a carb for the O200. Up to that point most engines were certified with both. The choice was up to the airframe manufacturer.

Everyone who has overheated a cylinder while climbing due to a Stromberg, raise your hand.

(Best thing about the Maul tailwheel is the price )

[lfries]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

Replaced my Maule with a Scott and got rid of all my tailwheel shimmy problems.

[flyken]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

Gee everybody gets diff probs been lucky with my maule. I mention the 0290 lycoming cause I've found you can't talk to some owner's about them and it seems to me some stromberg people are the same. Hey one guy here even is arguing with me about the name. Precision/marv either way. As for flight school mechanics tying off mixtures - I thought that was just a joke. I appreciate the accelerator pump worries and will ask around about that. As for inventing - well it sounds to me like you might be trying to invent excuses to argue. Believe it or not I am not trying to make you angry. To tell the truth I have haven't talked or thought much about strombergs for some time but I do remember the man at continental - and this is back when we still had rotary dial phones as well as touch tone, telling about the mixture control. I am not here trying to argue how many angels dance on the head of a pin or to nitpick. I am telling what I've noticed over the years and you are right it isn't scientific but it is what I have noticed. Frankly I've never looked inside the Precision and for all I know there are mice running around in there. I do know it does a better job than my stromberg did.

[Garry Crookham]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

For all you Stromberg fans: in 1996 Terry Norris of Aircraft Systems had a forum on Stromberg carbs at Oshkosh...all the info you want to know on mixture control, cold weather ops, needles, seats, etc...and you can order an audio tape of the forum, do a Goggle search on Airventure audio tapes. Terry is the expert, no b.s. The tape is $10 and worth the price.

Garry Crookham
N5112M
Tulsa

[flyken]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

Well the video sounds good. Just talked to my continental engine guru down south tonite too. He wasn't much in the mood to talk alot of theory and I didn't want to run up my phone bill so I am going to give the short version here. He said the Stromberg is 1930s tech was good for its day and that the mixture control is very finicky needs to be set up just right and is often tied up to avoid over leaning. He said the Stromberg is also known for lagging. He doubted the accelerator pump on the Precision, even if it failed would cause an engine failure, but that he would look into it. This is a guy who is has been working on continentals for over 40 years. He also said I should avoid forums as there are too many cranky/contrary people on them. I'd like to think the Taylorcraft forum is not like that.

[flyken]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

I should add, he did say the precision was definitely the better carb. Nitey nite all!

[NY86]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

If the plunger of the accelerator pump seizes up it will prevent the throttle from opening. I've seen it twice. Once in flight and once on an engine that was out of annual. In both cases I think it was due to water accumulating in the carb bowl. I had a picture but can't find it right now.

"Better" is relative. Maybe the Marvel is "better". All I'm saying is your Marvel won't get any better fuel consumption, go around performance or cold weather starting in your hands than my Stromberg does in my hands. Sure the mixture requires a deft hand and a little patience and concentration, but it is no more prone to running "too lean" than the Marvel. If you lean it to much, it doesn't matter what the name on the bowl is.

Don't believe everything Don tells you, either...

[flyken]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

I don't remember ever having cold weather starting trouble with either carb. If one carb has lag and another doesn't then obviously the one that doesn't lag will be preferred. I do get better mileage with my Precision it does keeps cylinders cooler in climb and its mixture control system is better. As for what to bellieve I think we all can figure out the truth here.

[flyguy]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

I have owned 3 Taylorcrafts with Strombergs and have only ever had to take one apart. That was because I no longer trusted the work that had been done on the aircraft, so I was checking everything.
The bowl was full of crap because someone had taken/left all the strainers out of the system. Replaced the gaskets and put it back together, worked fine, lasted a long time.
It was a 65 lightweight 1945 that I took to 14,500 ft on a cold day (for California) and it was still going up at 300 ft/min when my nose started freezing up (chuckle) and I gave up. Probably was getting stupid from lack of oxygen too. Anyway, was a Stromberg with the mixture tied off. Turns out that the carb had an 85 jet and venturi and the engine would turn way past 65 redline even with a long prop. (not climb pitch either)

Don't even ask me about the problems that I have had with all kinds of magnetos, though.

Perfect is the enemy of good (enough?)
DC

[Robert Lees]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

There's a lot of good reading here...I just wish some of you folk would break the paragraphs up a bit.

[flyken]

Re: Steel Needle Stromberg Carburetor

Well Robert for me it just something to pass the time on foggy mornings. Frankly I am surprised the way some people react to stuff that was figured out and supposedly settled 50 years ago. Once the mixture control goes in a Stromberg "deft" hands can't fix it by manipulating the controls in the cockpit. You have to take the carb off open it up and fix it or you will run too lean even in full rich and slowly cook your cylinders.
The adjective I most heard over the years by AMEs (A and Ps in ths States) to describe the Stromberg was "squirrelly" not sophisticated. It was the best technology of the day. It is difficult to set up properly and unfortunately once out of alignment difficult to realign and set up properly again and that is why so many are tied off - high maintenance.
I should also add that your fuel consumption suddenly goes go way up then the float most likely needs to be realigned and that again means removing opening and replacing the carb - don't forget to keep your gaskets in good condition or they will leak fuel.
I added the paragraphs for you Robert