Setting non-blind rivets

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

Got to agree with Bill on this one. Even I had no problem bucking pretty rivets with the right tools (and buggering up EVERY ONE with jury rigged junk). Get the right tools and even an engineer can do a nice job.
Hank

[VictorBravo]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

This is a skill I really want to learn. I know I can go to the nearest EAA chapter (I'm a member) and someone will do it for me, but Bill et al have suggested it can be done by hand without an expensive rivet set or hand squeezer so I want to give that a chance. - Mike

For me, the most common reason rivets squash off to one side is that the rivet is not snug in hole in the parts. A 3/32 rivet in a 1/8 hole will be almost impossible to mash straight.

If the rivet is falling off to one side, another possibility is you are not hitting it square. That's why I said make sure the guide tube is cut perfectly square.

That being said, the best and most reliable way is with a hand squeezer or a bucking bar and gun. Before wasting any more time or effort, I have to suggest you go and get someone with a hand squeezer or a real rivet gun, and start learning that skill. BELIEVE ME, if I can learn it easily anyone can !

[mhorowit]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

Mike,

A picture is worth a thousand words, an EAA free video is even better.

http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilder...oId=1715728645

Maybe a lot of folks are trying to get to the site; I'll try later as the player isn't loading - Mike

[Ron Greene]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

Mike,

A picture is worth a thousand words, an EAA free video is even better.

http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html?videoId=1715728645

[mhorowit]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

Is it a stamped rib or a built up one like the cubs have? If it is stamped, I would just use some AN470-3-3's spaces about 1/2-3/4" apart on the sides and some counter sunk rivets on the top and bottoms. Just go find a mechanic that is an old timer and he can do it in about 30 minutes. It would take me 45-an hour because I have not seen my tools in almost a year. Just think, if you are covering it and used good old fashioned pop rivets, the next time anyone saw it would be in around 30 years and I dont think that anyone would really give a crap then. There is not much stress on that rib, the rib stitching is the hardest strain or installing the martin wire....will do the most damage....unless you ground loop it

"saw" is the operative word. Agree this is not a structural part, but I'd prefer solid rivets - Mike

[mhorowit]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

Ok, I think you are splicing an aluminum rib?

Correct

First off make sure you follow the guidelines in 43.13 or some other source of approved/approvable data. For one thing, you will probably need a whole lot more than a half dozen rivets to make your repair. Not being able to visualize it in my mind I am guessing. Thankfully, I have never had that part of a T-craft open and really have no idea what it looks like

If you can get in there with a rivet gun and bucking bar that would probably be the best way. The second best choice would be to utilize CherryMax or CherryLock rivets. Those are blind rivets that can be pulled with a conventional "pop rivet" tool. (if it's a good strong one) These rivets are expensive and come in a variety of sizes. It is very important to use the exact length needed for good results. Is the part off the plane? ie, can you take it in your vehicle somewhere? If you can, I think that if you went to a local airport someone there could fix you up for cheap (or free) Or go in the morning with a dozen donuts I would gladly buck a few rivets for some donuts...

This is a skill I really want to learn. I know I can go to the nearest EAA chapter (I'm a member) and someone will do it for me, but Bill et al have suggested it can be done by hand without an expensive rivet set or hand squeezer so I want to give that a chance. - Mike

[mhorowit]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

Mike,
Fit the pieces together-one end over the other or make some splices(from old rib pieces works very well) secure the pieces together, and rivet from the side with standard AN rivets-this way you don't need to countersink.
Buell

That's my intent.
First I have to get these rivets to set properly; that's the immediate concern. - MIke

[astjp2]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

Is it a stamped rib or a built up one like the cubs have? If it is stamped, I would just use some AN470-3-3's spaces about 1/2-3/4" apart on the sides and some counter sunk rivets on the top and bottoms. Just go find a mechanic that is an old timer and he can do it in about 30 minutes. It would take me 45-an hour because I have not seen my tools in almost a year. Just think, if you are covering it and used good old fashioned pop rivets, the next time anyone saw it would be in around 30 years and I dont think that anyone would really give a crap then. There is not much stress on that rib, the rib stitching is the hardest strain or installing the martin wire....will do the most damage....unless you ground loop it

[fearofpavement]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

You know the last rib on a wing, where the steel wing tip bow connects?
the last 4 inches of the steel bow were rusted away and the last two inches of the aluminum rib were coroded away. I've repaired the bow (see thread elsewhere) and removed the diseased portion of the rib trailing edge. I have bent some rib material to replace the portion I"ve removed and now need to secure (hence the talk about riveting) the new metal to the old. - MIkeH

Ok, I think you are splicing an aluminum rib? First off make sure you follow the guidelines in 43.13 or some other source of approved/approvable data. For one thing, you will probably need a whole lot more than a half dozen rivets to make your repair. Not being able to visualize it in my mind I am guessing. Thankfully, I have never had that part of a T-craft open and really have no idea what it looks like

If you can get in there with a rivet gun and bucking bar that would probably be the best way. The second best choice would be to utilize CherryMax or CherryLock rivets. Those are blind rivets that can be pulled with a conventional "pop rivet" tool. (if it's a good strong one) These rivets are expensive and come in a variety of sizes. It is very important to use the exact length needed for good results. Is the part off the plane? ie, can you take it in your vehicle somewhere? If you can, I think that if you went to a local airport someone there could fix you up for cheap (or free) Or go in the morning with a dozen donuts I would gladly buck a few rivets for some donuts...

[Buell Powell]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

Mike,
Fit the pieces together-one end over the other or make some splices(from old rib pieces works very well) secure the pieces together, and rivet from the side with standard AN rivets-this way you don't need to countersink.
Buell

[mhorowit]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

Mike, exactly what are you trying to rivet together? A little more info may be useful to those giving you suggestions.
thanks.

You know the last rib on a wing, where the steel wing tip bow connects?
the last 4 inches of the steel bow were rusted away and the last two inches of the aluminum rib were coroded away. I've repaired the bow (see thread elsewhere) and removed the diseased portion of the rib trailing edge. I have bent some rib material to replace the portion I"ve removed and now need to secure (hence the talk about riveting) the new metal to the old. - MIkeH

[fearofpavement]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

Mike, exactly what are you trying to rivet together? A little more info may be useful to those giving you suggestions.
thanks.

[mhorowit]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

Or, you can make a setting tool to use with a hammer.... a piece of steel tubing cut perfectly at 90 degrees and smoothed, and a steel rod that slides inside that tube. Use thick wall tube for a better footprint and press down with the tube so the head of the rivet is firmly in the countersink and the backing plate is keeping it all flush. Whack the rod with the hammer several times and you're set. Make several test pieces to see how many hammer blows it takes. If you want to get REAL fancy use clear plastic tube so you can see the rivet being squashed. See attached sketch.

Bill - I built a countersink to hold a rounded rivet head flush. I've been trying your tool and ineveitably, the shop head ends up offset from the original head.
I think I"m keeping the rivet vertical. Any suggestions as to what to look for? - MIke

[astjp2]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

Even better yet, just find a mechanic or one of the old timers at the airport and see if they will help you. I am always having people stop by and getting me to do small projects when I am home. Tim

[VictorBravo]

Re: Setting non-blind rivets

Bill - could you please define a few terms.
"head in the countersink" - no problem - I drilled a dent into my anvil the size of the round rivet head.
"Backing plate is keeping it all flush". Where does this backing plate come in? - Mike

Be careful about drilling that "dent"... if it is not real smooth it will mark up your rivet heads and it will be embarrassing and the whole aviation world will come knocking on your door complaining and waving the 43.13 book at you

Go to anyone who is building an RV kit, or the local airport mechanic, and buy or borrow a small rivet set that fits into one of those hand squeezers. Find them on eBay or through ACS... it's worth the $20 or $40 to have a set. Even without the squeezer you can just drill a 3/16" hole in your steel plate (or an anvil) and make use of it.

If you HAVE to do it the hard way, get a Dremel tool with one of the spherical metal cutters, but then you have to go in with a polisher or something to make it smooth. Lots of time versus just buying a squeezer set. The AN470 rivet head is not spherical anyway, it has a flat spot.

The backing plate is the thick steel plate that is underneath the rivet, so when you hit the other end is squashes instead of just flying out of the pieces you are riveting. Technically this is called "back riveting" by the old aerospace guys and RV builders. It is a common and well respected way of getting it done with flush rivets.

I have to suggest that you might just consider borrowing a real rivet gun and bucking bar from an RV builder or airplane mechanic. For the cost of a hamburger or a 6 pack of beer, they can demonstrate how to use it, show you how to drive the other 6 rivets, and you've got a skill that can be used over and over. The same skill can be brought to bear on wing rib repairs, firewall repairs, cowling repairs, cooling baffle repairs, lots of places even on a T-craft.

Bill