Tailbrace Wire Questions

[flyguy]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

Rob, I think you are saying that painting the "brackets/straps" would isolate them from the nipples, where there is necessairly metal to metal between the nipples and the wire threads?
I was thinking, worse case (that is what I always get LOL), that the paint would chip, wear off, or compression press through until you have metal to metal at the nipple "bracket" interface. I have always had ZERO luck getting paint to protect anything with an edge to it.
Actually I didn't think it all out like that, was just thinking metal to metal, all the way down. It wasn't what I would classify as one of my more serious replies.
DC

[NC22211]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

For rolled thread tail and wing wires in 316 stainless steel, try Rolled Threads Unlimited. Check their website for contact. They use slightly oversized rod so the thread rolling process does not compromise original rod strenght. The 316 stainless is the same as known, commercially produced a/c rods. Do not use 304 stainless.

You give them the proper thread pitch, lengths and quantities needed, they send you finished wires. They also have the ability to produce right and left threaded rods for some of the other antique types, they can roll the odd-ball #6 and #8 NF threads Taylorcraft uses.

Gents: Rolled Threads can be a great resource for us all, as long as we don't get wrapped around the axle. If you're a novice or a paperwork mountain wannabe - please stay away for the good of us all. Sorry to have to say that, but I hope you'll understand.

Supposedly, the wing and tail brace wire nipples were the same, or similar to, automotive spoked wheel nipples. Any Model A gurus out there with a source which matches what we need? Cheers! Bob

[flyguy]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

Thanks VERY much for the source Bob.
Darryl

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

The Approved Type Certificate 696 , 699, 700 and the one for the D Model use the same straps, nipples and threads there are three lengths of wires. The early B have shorter wires on top. ALL part #'s are in the Parts list ...... I am at home, do not have one here.
tomorrow I can expand upon this thread. BUT ALL wires, nipples, straps etc. are NOT SS, the thread is 8-36 not 8-32 ; IF Univair has paper work , fine, if not you are making the ship "not airworthy" with this SS stuff and wrong thread.

[SCRed]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

Okay, for what it's worth, I called Mark at Univair today. He looked up the prints for his part numbers UA-461 and UD-40 (the BC12 top and bottom tail brace wires) and told me they are made from 316 stainless with rolled threads and that they have the proper PMA paperwork for them. I'm not taking a position on the stainless issue mentioned previously, just reporting what he told me.

I then called Buchanan's Spoke and Rim looking for stainless nipples. Unfortunately, they did not have nipples of any kind that would help us. Their barrel sizes were eight thousands too small from what we need. (.320, we need a minimum of .328) And the only thread count they sell for 8 gauge is 32. They do not make 8-36 threads on any of their products nor will they.

[Pearson]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

Lee,

If I were you, I would call Jeff and ask him why he didn't replace those when he rebuilt your plane.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

Will Buchanan's Spoke and Rim sell the blanks for the nipples (or let you know who makes them for them)? It would be a simple job to drill and tap the blanks on a laithe.
Hank

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

I have NO PROBLEM with Univair but those are NOT the same part# and are not a direct replacement. I just makes the IA's work harder down the line after you sell it, and anyone who knows what they are doing all find an unapproved part installed with out any paperwork. It works good while you and the good old boy IA signs it off each year. THEN you sell it and its problems.
They have to be installed with a 337 at least..... I just wish these suppliers would build "original" aprts and use the original part number .

Maybe Bob Ollerton will send me to the basement with a time out for my ranting. But that is my opinion and the FAA rule.....We just found out a lot of this with the Strut AD; notice how quickly these other suppliers picked up on the correct way to do things.
My latest concern are front struts, .049 under 3 in major Dia. where did THAT come from. or maybe somebody misspelled a call out.

[Guest]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

Forrest,

3.372 was the major as I recall

the PMA list should give the applications, FAA tells me PN does not have to match but the PMA catalog gives the applications

Make sense?

[Guest]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

ok so now I am curious.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Univair PMA catalog says UD-40 is an approved replacement for D-40 on these planes BC12-D, BCS12-D, BC12-D1,
BCS12-D1, BC12D-85,
BCS12D-85, BC12D-4-85,
BCS12D-4-85, 19, F19, F21

My old parts book says D-40 is the top wire

link is below;

http://univairparts.com/pma/search.php?page=35&partnum=40

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Univair PMA catalog says UA-461 is an approved replacement for A-461 on these planes BC12-D, BCS21-D, BC12-D1,
BCS12-D1, BC12D-85,
BCS12D-85, BC12D-4-85,
BCS12D-4-85, 19, F19, F21

My old parts book says A-461 is the bottom wire

link is below;

http://univairparts.com/pma/search.php?partnum=-461

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

That looks ok doesn't it Forrest?

Dave

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

I do not have access to my parts book here at the house will jump on it tomorrow, Univair has used the U- ( Tcraft part#) stuff and Safe-Air used SA- ( Tcraft part#) Wag-Aero is doing something ; taht maj dia. under 3 in. was called out somewhere here on the discussion forumn for the Wag stuff. I have been cancelled for tomorrows appearances, will jump abck in tomorrow with numbers. If it is done under PMA is one thing , STC is another,

[Guest]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

I bought Univairs and measured I am sure of the 3.372, must be a typo somewhere

hope it wasn't mine !

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

Univairs are fine, I checked the data myself I was refering to Wag-Aero:

below are quotes from tjhe big book at the FAA. I am signing off for the evening.

Parts Manufacturer Approval (PMA)
Parts Manufacturer Approval (PMA) is a combined design and production approval for modification and replacement parts. It allows a manufacturer to produce and sell these parts for installation on type certificated products. We approve materials, processes, appliances and other parts by other means like a Technical Standards Order (TSO) or in conjunction with a type certificate. Order 8110.42 prescribes the approval procedures for FAA personnel and guides applicants in the approval process.



Supplemental Type Certificates A Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) is a document issued by the Federal Aviation Administration approving a product (aircraft, engine, or propeller) modification. The STC defines the product design change, states how the modification affects the existing type design, and lists serial number effectivity. It also identifies the certification basis listing specific regulatory compliance for the design change. Information contained in the certification basis is helpful for those applicants proposing subsequent product modifications and evaluating certification basis compatibility with other STC modifications.

[SCRed]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

Interesting question, Richard. Neither of us can remember if we actually replaced the nipples or not back in 1995 when we rebuilt our plane. Like many others, I could write a book about the twists and turns involved in that journey. However, we did clean them up, prime and paint both the nipples and the wires with polyurethane paint. The paint on the outside is still good. However, 13 years of being tied down outside have taken their toll on the threads, as the nipples will not turn any more, despite repeated applications of penetrating oil.

Hank, when I spoke with Buchanan's Spoke and Rim, they were not interested in entertaining the idea of special orders in any form. Even if they were, the barrel sizes of their nipples are different enough from the A-986 drawing that one might as well start from scratch in the machine shop.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Tailbrace Wire Questions

Have you removed the wires, just knock out the bolts, take them into the shop, a wee bit of heat and a squeeze and they should turn . Nipples? do what you have to do Harley Davidson comes to mind for a starter.