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  • Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

    Not that I know anything about the particulars of the Taylorcraft Factory's Status... but, think about the Writers Strike (actually a change in the Screenwriters Contracts) and a concept called Cul De' Sac-ing. Let's say you have a Movie Script... you option it to Producer A for $10K... producer A options it to Producer B for $25K and so on until the options grow and there's hundreds of thousand of $$$$$ piled on to 12 people for a Movie Script that will never be made... because it is too expensive and there are too many people to pay-off to get the rights. Effectively a producer (the 1st or second producer in line) can control the script -- while receiving more income -- than the original writer and never do anything but have la-dee-dah Hollywood meetings over cocktails.

    What does this have to do with Taylorcraft? We may be at the same place. Only by Bankruptcy can one clear out, clean up, or resolve all the promises, liens, myraid competing relationships, etc. Bankruptcy courts settle those things for a living. The Taylorcraft Factory price then becomes not what is promised, not what is owed, but what it is worth. That's when investors will step in and buy. We may not be there right now... but we're close. Watch out for Cul De' Sac-kers!

    Another idea is to build Taylorcraft DCO models (100Hp-LSA) for less than Legend built the LSA Cub and the Ranch Wagon for less than Maule builds its 180Hp model. Although I haven't run the numbers... it seems to me that starting (or restarting) these unincumbered models from scratch makes more (or some) sense than trying to sort out the Harry-made-messes. Forrest and I talked about this concept about a year ago. Forrest didn't like the idea much... if I recall the conversation correctly. It may not have had merit at that time. BUT, perhaps times have changed. Over the past few years there are more competitors in this LSA Classic category (Legend Cub -American-Champ) and economic times are tighter than in the previous few years. Ideas for those working on bids.
    With regards;
    ED OBRIEN
    Last edited by Ed O'Brien; 02-13-2008, 09:27.

  • #2
    Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

    AHHH, but I'm afraid that it would take many more people with much more money that any of us have to pull it off. That's NOT to say it can't be done, I just doubt that any of us will be at the helm of that ship. Brie

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    • #3
      Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

      I would have my doubts about that too based on this:
      if the Tcraft was popular enough to warrant a new manufacturing run then we would not currently have to be scrounging for parts. There would be parts and manufacterers aplenty such as for the cub lines.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

        In this case, no matter if it is the cost of the aquisition of the design, tooling, license to produce, etc. OR the cost of
        building from scratch using some old designs... the price must be right. At the moment, or at least when I analyzed the factory's situation a few years ago... It cost too much to buy in as an investor. I'm not putting money into the factory, but I'd considered it a while back. So we agree. If the acquistion price of the factory goes down... investors may come forward. It's simple math, really. And not that controversial. In other words, don't expect the factory to come on-line, sell out, take in investors, or do anything other than talk, until the numbers add up. That's about it.
        With regards;
        ED OBRIEN

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        • #5
          Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

          Ed, there was a movie made way WAY back when, titled "New Faces of 1937" (my old man was in the movie). The plot was about a humorous scam to get a bunch of investors to buy shares in a broadway show which would flop, meaning the producers didn't have to pay the money back. Mel Brooks took that concept years later and made "The Producers" into a movie and then a show. Your comment about "development hell" and cul de sac maneuvers is the same concept on the script end. I once worked with Stanley Kramer for a short period, and he had written a sequel to "It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World" called "The Sheiks of Araby". For the last 30 or 40 years of his life, Stanley's big sequel was buried in development hell and never got made. I think Paramount buried it or something. In these days of Ocean's Eleventeen with the budget available for 10 A list stars, a sequel to Mad World bringing back the classic "farce" genre could be a huge win. But alas... it's in development hell and you could start over with a new plot for a lot less heartache than rescuing "Sheiks".

          Likewise, with all due respect to the ghost of CG Taylor, you could build a newly designed Taylorcraft and certify it as an LSA (meaning ASTM instead of Part 23 or CAR 4) for less money than getting Harry and his flea circus out of the way. Besides, you could build a 110% size strutless plastic Taylorcraft with a Subaru car engine faster and with less labor, lighter weight, etc. etc. etc. for the same money or less.
          Taylorcraft : Making Better Aviators for 75 Years... and Counting

          Bill Berle
          TF#693

          http://www.ezflaphandle.com
          http://www.grantstar.net
          N26451 (1940 BL(C)-65) 1988-90
          N47DN (Auster Autocrat) 1992-93
          N96121 (1946 BC-12D-85) 1998-99
          N29544 (1940 BL(C)-85) 2005-08

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

            Bill B. -- I think you've made my point even clearer. I thank you. No one can spend all that time (6-7 years) spinning their wheels without expecting a payoff. Meaning, that too much good money has gone down a perfectly good rat hole... and eaten by the hairy rat... if you get my drift. Who knows what they'll do but I'll bet you not much until the money gets right and I'm betting that's probably never. At least for producing new planes. Frankly, I think they missed a golden opportunity... LSA Classic is a going concern with a nice market. Taylorcraft could have been at the front of that line. I think the market is likely now too saturated with competitors. At least in the current economic climate. Too bad indeed.

            With regards;
            ED OBRIEN
            Last edited by Ed O'Brien; 02-14-2008, 07:26.

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            • #7
              Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

              I agree with you guys Ed and Bill, LSA field is getting filled up with planes,
              and now with Cessna skycatcher that's is going to be the FBO plane of choice.
              They need a small shop and start making afordable PARTS.
              Your are right about missing the boat,to late now to get into LSA.
              Robbie
              TF#832
              N44338
              "46" BC12D
              Fond du lac WI

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

                Originally posted by robbie View Post
                I agree with you guys Ed and Bill, LSA field is getting filled up with planes,
                and now with Cessna skycatcher that's is going to be the FBO plane of choice.
                They need a small shop and start making afordable PARTS.
                Your are right about missing the boat,to late now to get into LSA.
                There may not be enough aviation-minded Americans who didn't lose their aviation related jobs (when Cessna went offshore)to afford buying one of those Kung Pao Cessnas. I hope Cessna did a marketing survey in China to see if the $1/hour laborers can afford the thing. We third-world Americans certainly can't afford it.

                But the part I love the most is the Remos Aircraft's advertisement on the first page of Sport Aviation, comparing their airplane to the Skycatcher... significantly better performance, lower cost, and fly it away today.
                Last edited by VictorBravo; 02-14-2008, 10:26.
                Taylorcraft : Making Better Aviators for 75 Years... and Counting

                Bill Berle
                TF#693

                http://www.ezflaphandle.com
                http://www.grantstar.net
                N26451 (1940 BL(C)-65) 1988-90
                N47DN (Auster Autocrat) 1992-93
                N96121 (1946 BC-12D-85) 1998-99
                N29544 (1940 BL(C)-85) 2005-08

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

                  Taylorcraft needn't be cheap to be the LSA Market leader. BUT, it needed to be cheaper than $100K, faster than the Legend Cub, with a 100Hp engine, starter, and of course here's the killer... timed to hit the sweet spot of the LSA Classic market... which unfortunately was a couple of years back.

                  Well that's how the marketplace works. It kills what it can't use. Taylorcraft wasted this market's opportunity and go-around on the meanderings knuckleheads. Maybe next time, whenever that will be... With regards; ED OBRIEN

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

                    I have to chime in on the Skycatcher. Not that Cessna really cares what I think, because I don't have an extra $100K lying around, but I sure as hell wouldn't spend it on a Chinese made Cessna if I did. There...I said it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

                      ASTM, a New O200 D, ribblet airfoil of some kind, 44 Inch wide cabin 200 lbs bagage, wider doors, 1800 lbs gross.
                      for floats: O 320 150 hp.
                      New Price 35 k.
                      Just my wish list.
                      Owner maintained : after training.
                      Some of us are suitable as mechnics unless trained and tested!
                      Len
                      I loved airplane seens I was a kid.
                      The T- craft # 1 aircraft for me.
                      Foundation Member # 712

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

                        Len,
                        You are actually not out of reality on that price.
                        There is one thing that drives up the price of airplanes...lawsuits.
                        A whopping 68% of a new aircraft cost is legal crap lawsuits and full time company attorneys to fight them.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

                          Hi gang , back after a little mission. Ed , I think we discussed this, and I think my position was to use a kind of clean sheet of paper using the plan form of Taylorcraft B & D blown up a bit.
                          This was my suggestion back at Lock Haven in 1991 at the great think tank with Mrs. Feris, myself, the owners at that time, Darrell Romick, Fred Burlingame, Piper folks and many others. Then there is the Model 18 ; the D model with the 125 Lyc Diesel ( or 150 HP Lycoming) or a Jabiru , use JARS certification .... The Model 20 with complete change of materials to reduce weight would be good too! Bring 4.5 million dollars to Alliance-Akron area and we will start it up tomorrow.
                          Taylorcraft Foundation, Inc
                          Forrest A Barber 330-495-5447
                          TF#1
                          www.BarberAircraft.com
                          [email protected]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

                            Forrest;
                            You know I'd love to come to Alliance. If I need to wait until I have the $4-5million... it'll be awhile. Love to Patti and Kelli Belle.

                            Yes the Model 18 would be better than the 20. I still think the DCO with 0-200 and 20-26 gallons of fuel is the winner. 1 pilot and gear... go anywhere little Jeep of a plane. I love mine.
                            With our love to our Allies in Alliance;
                            Ed and Susie O'Brien

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Cul de' Sacs and Taylorcrafts

                              Hey wasnt there some guy that was trying to buy the factory and move it to Utah a few decades ago? I was just thinking about how much less opportunity for corrosion...Tim
                              N29787
                              '41 BC12-65

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