Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Just checking in after the all day rain, got a new jump ship ( Cessna 182 ) in yesterday, been busy.

The Foundation nor the e-mail to myself that is registered on the factory web site never got that e-mail.....
I did have a good conversation with the FAA ( Andy McAnaul,) and we compared notes on the response to the NPRM that ended on the 9th. My final comments go to him tomorrow. Andy has downloaded our owner comments on results of testing, we need to always document your replies with Model , ser# , and N numbers . The F-19's and newer are clean as hounds teeth.

on Thurs. I did talk with the new to the factory MIDO Safety guy. I will post a synopsis of those conversations tomorrow from the airport where I left my notes. Watching "Close Encounters of the Third Kind "at the moment . & do not want to get wet at 10PM EST.
I was assured that the 4130 steel did come into Brownsville from Plymouth , I was hoping it was not from China . All users of 4130 steel and the FAA are aware of the problems with the China Steel, IT IS NOT up to quality.

What would really be interesting is if the "new guy" could or has inspected the factory and if in fact Harry is still there and trying to build something? I seriously doubt if the past inspector was doing accurate inspections and reporting thereof. The last report I got was that they had 10 employees building struts, that was 6 weeks ago, and as of today, to my knowledge not one set has ever shipped? Makes no sense. I don't think that report was accurate.

JS

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

new guy was old guy up in LaGrange. I too agree that something is seriously wrong.

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Humm?? the new guy is the old inspector that inspected T/C factory while it was located in LaGrange?, so he is familiar with the past, I would hope that
this will breath some creditablity into the process? All I would like is a straight answer to what we have been being told, and that is that they are
actually trying to build struts, and will eventually get some out?? I seriously doubt if that is factual

JS

[VictorBravo]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

All I would like is a straight answer to what we have been being told,
I seriously doubt if that is factual

I truly don't want to insult anyone (well, almost anyone), it's not my intention at all. But, when you drive up to an intersection and stop at a red light, and it stays red instead of turning green, and this situation hasn't changed for twenty minutes, eventually the motorists have every right to assume the light is broken. You look both ways, and move on.

I think it is safe to say that the light is broken down in Brownsville, folks.

Again, no insult intended at all, but if you are waiting for a straight answer on this, then you're unfortunately missing the point:

There is not going to be a straight answer from Harry Ingram because he is not a straight shooter.

There is not going to be a straight answer from the FAA (on the manufacture / sales of struts) because they have no jurisdiction over whether or not he actually manufactures and sells them.

There will likely not be a straight answer officially from the Owner's Club, Foundation, etc. because they cannot officially come out for or against anyone. I sometimes disagree with this personally but then again I'm not in the line of fire of a lawsuit or being seen as biased by the FAA, and they are.

There is not going to be a straight answer (anytime soon) on the AD's, SB's and flight safety issues from Harry OR the FAA... because the FAA finally knows they got at least partially conned, BUT the FAA and the T-craft owners have seen that there ARE some unsafe rusted struts out there that need to be replaced, and they always did know that the Wiley seaplane crash was caused by something other than a strut.

Off topic warning

Bottom line? At this point, (no disrespect to the FAA) despite the AD's and SB's, there are still personal decisions that have to be made: In my opinion as just a reasonably experienced owner/operator ,

Do not immediately assume you need or want new wing struts. Don't panic, just calm the #*$% down for a minute. It is well worth the peace of mind for you to find out if your current struts are or are not safe. Forget about doing ten years worth of theoretical mathematics and just figuring that it is cheaper throwing away the struts that have been faithful to your airplane for 60 *(#$% years !!! This situation is changing often enough that nobody really knows where this will wind up. REMEMBER that some airplanes are flying with unsafe struts, but none of them have failed inflight... so what is needed is immediate inspection and verification before you fly happily off into the sunset or throw anything away.

If you have good condition, undamaged, sealed aftermarket wing struts from any reputable manufacturer, chances are that you can fly those struts safely while the FAA paperwork, PMA approvals, which airplane models are on who's PMA list, how long between the X-ray or Ultrasound or Gypsy fortune teller testing is done, etc. is sorted out.

If you have 60 year old original wing struts, no matter what they look like on the outside, for goodness sake spend $200 for your own safety and have them X-rayed on the airplane by a competent X-ray shop. Feel free to use the "on the airplane" AMOC that I got approved (which was posted on this forum), or any other AMOC that has been approved to do this... hand the AMOC to your IA with the films and X-ray report. If the struts are good, tell the IA to pour the !($%^@ oil into the !($*#^ struts and have a nice day for at least two years until all this BS gets sorted out. Chances are that this will actually be extended to four years. After four years, have the !($%&* brains to X-ray it again because you will have damn near a 70 year old airplane at that time.

STOP what you're doing and perform a very very thorough inspection on your lower fuselage fitting right now. Before the next time you fly it, get down there on a creeper with a strong light and an ice pick and poke at it like hell from all sides. Look for rust stains. Look for fabric tucked into the crevices (and pull it out). Look for mud. Poke at it some more. Have your IA there to poke at it with you. Poke at the INSIDE of this fitting behind the seat too. For ($#%&'s bloody sake you should have been poking around your airplane a lot every year before this happened anyway. The days of a fat/dumb/happy airplane owner that has no idea or concern what's going on inside his airplane are over, and never should have been allowed in the first place! When you are done with your initial ice-pick inspection, you can fly your airplane until the rest of this BS is sorted out if you want. (Make sure the ice pick is stored safely in Harry Ingram's back, because he has provided a similar service to us).

BUT also be prepared to have you and your IA remove the lower attach bolt and look even harder at the lower fitting, and wrap your head around the idea that you will probably be cutting a little fabric and installing a removable or transparent inspection cover there. Anybody who tells you this means removing the wings, or taking the struts completely off... tell them to sit down and be quiet. It is NOT necessary. Yes a hangar is really nice to do this, and by all means you should be able to con your way into a hangar for an hour. Start thinking about it now, the AD or SB on the lower fitting will and should include looking at the inside of the little knuckles. However, if there is really really no way to get your airplane into a a hangar then you can still do this inspection. Several of us have or can write up a safe, sane, easily accomplished method of doing this inspection without removing the wings and minimizing the risk of damaging the airplane. Start being nice to people who have minivans and full size pickup trucks, because you will need a vehicle with a roof that is about 3 to 6 inches below the lower surface of your wings when the plane is leveled.

And most importantly, go out of your way to find one of the old-tyme IA mechanics who understands and is experienced with tube and rag airplanes. This may or may not be some old haggard greybeard... it might be a 30 or 40 year old guy who grew up around old airplanes.

End of off-topic portion

[flylo]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Very well put Bill!

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Bill, you have some of the nicest rants on this group. EXACTLY why I haven't done a single thing on the struts and longerons yet. My wings are off and I know I will be exposing the strut attach fittings by removing some fabric anyway. No rush there at all so why fret over it. The struts are stood up in the corner of the hangar and look good through the hole in the ends (which really doesn't mean a thing, but again, WHAT'S THE RUSH!) I'll either get new ones or x-ray these when I need to put them on.
Right now I am concentrating on my newly upholstered doors, the new flat panel windshield and the new seats and instruments. When those are all in I will start making the new cowl while the struts are done. The struts and longerons aren't changing my schedule one day.
Nice to see people keeping things in perspective and I feel for you guys who are actually grounded by this mess. When you catch Harry we will hold him while you store your struts somewhere that will REALLY make them non-airworthy.
Hank

[hangarb7]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

...When you catch Harry we will hold him while you store your struts somewhere that will REALLY make them non-airworthy.
Hank

I don't know Hank. If you stick them in Harry where the sun don't shine, there will be a lack of oxygen and any corrosion activity would be arrested.

Actually, any sentence that has 'Harry' and 'arrested' in it sounds pretty good...

And Bill, thanks for giving me an "altitude" adjustment. I needed it. I'll start on my airplane this weekend...

Regards to all,

Jack D

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

I truly don't want to insult anyone (well, almost anyone), it's not my intention at all. But, when you drive up to an intersection and stop at a red light, and it stays red instead of turning green, and this situation hasn't changed for twenty minutes, eventually the motorists have every right to assume the light is broken. You look both ways, and move on.

I think it is safe to say that the light is broken down in Brownsville, folks.

Again, no insult intended at all, but if you are waiting for a straight answer on this, then you're unfortunately missing the point:

There is not going to be a straight answer from Harry Ingram because he is not a straight shooter.

There is not going to be a straight answer from the FAA (on the manufacture / sales of struts) because they have no jurisdiction over whether or not he actually manufactures and sells them.

There will likely not be a straight answer officially from the Owner's Club, Foundation, etc. because they cannot officially come out for or against anyone. I sometimes disagree with this personally but then again I'm not in the line of fire of a lawsuit or being seen as biased by the FAA, and they are.

There is not going to be a straight answer (anytime soon) on the AD's, SB's and flight safety issues from Harry OR the FAA... because the FAA finally knows they got at least partially conned, BUT the FAA and the T-craft owners have seen that there ARE some unsafe rusted struts out there that need to be replaced, and they always did know that the Wiley seaplane crash was caused by something other than a strut.

Off topic warning

Bottom line? At this point, (no disrespect to the FAA) despite the AD's and SB's, there are still personal decisions that have to be made: In my opinion as just a reasonably experienced owner/operator ,

Do not immediately assume you need or want new wing struts. Don't panic, just calm the #*$% down for a minute. It is well worth the peace of mind for you to find out if your current struts are or are not safe. Forget about doing ten years worth of theoretical mathematics and just figuring that it is cheaper throwing away the struts that have been faithful to your airplane for 60 *(#$% years !!! This situation is changing often enough that nobody really knows where this will wind up. REMEMBER that some airplanes are flying with unsafe struts, but none of them have failed inflight... so what is needed is immediate inspection and verification before you fly happily off into the sunset or throw anything away.

If you have good condition, undamaged, sealed aftermarket wing struts from any reputable manufacturer, chances are that you can fly those struts safely while the FAA paperwork, PMA approvals, which airplane models are on who's PMA list, how long between the X-ray or Ultrasound or Gypsy fortune teller testing is done, etc. is sorted out.

If you have 60 year old original wing struts, no matter what they look like on the outside, for goodness sake spend $200 for your own safety and have them X-rayed on the airplane by a competent X-ray shop. Feel free to use the "on the airplane" AMOC that I got approved (which was posted on this forum), or any other AMOC that has been approved to do this... hand the AMOC to your IA with the films and X-ray report. If the struts are good, tell the IA to pour the !($%^@ oil into the !($*#^ struts and have a nice day for at least two years until all this BS gets sorted out. Chances are that this will actually be extended to four years. After four years, have the !($%&* brains to X-ray it again because you will have damn near a 70 year old airplane at that time.

STOP what you're doing and perform a very very thorough inspection on your lower fuselage fitting right now. Before the next time you fly it, get down there on a creeper with a strong light and an ice pick and poke at it like hell from all sides. Look for rust stains. Look for fabric tucked into the crevices (and pull it out). Look for mud. Poke at it some more. Have your IA there to poke at it with you. Poke at the INSIDE of this fitting behind the seat too. For ($#%&'s bloody sake you should have been poking around your airplane a lot every year before this happened anyway. The days of a fat/dumb/happy airplane owner that has no idea or concern what's going on inside his airplane are over, and never should have been allowed in the first place! When you are done with your initial ice-pick inspection, you can fly your airplane until the rest of this BS is sorted out if you want. (Make sure the ice pick is stored safely in Harry Ingram's back, because he has provided a similar service to us).

BUT also be prepared to have you and your IA remove the lower attach bolt and look even harder at the lower fitting, and wrap your head around the idea that you will probably be cutting a little fabric and installing a removable or transparent inspection cover there. Anybody who tells you this means removing the wings, or taking the struts completely off... tell them to sit down and be quiet. It is NOT necessary. Yes a hangar is really nice to do this, and by all means you should be able to con your way into a hangar for an hour. Start thinking about it now, the AD or SB on the lower fitting will and should include looking at the inside of the little knuckles. However, if there is really really no way to get your airplane into a a hangar then you can still do this inspection. Several of us have or can write up a safe, sane, easily accomplished method of doing this inspection without removing the wings and minimizing the risk of damaging the airplane. Start being nice to people who have minivans and full size pickup trucks, because you will need a vehicle with a roof that is about 3 to 6 inches below the lower surface of your wings when the plane is leveled.

And most importantly, go out of your way to find one of the old-tyme IA mechanics who understands and is experienced with tube and rag airplanes. This may or may not be some old haggard greybeard... it might be a 30 or 40 year old guy who grew up around old airplanes.

End of off-topic portion

WELL SAID

JS

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

I usually do not praise many "rants" ; this is not really a rant. I saw it as a well thought out response to this whole mess. I have not been able to answer all questions but at the moment my BC12D is in the shop , I will remove the struts, I have a spare set of course. If you do not; then temporary props work well, CHECK that fitting real well, inspect the struts, treat inside ,install and go flying . Many struts will pass. Those that don't are the reason for the concern of the AD.
I have had three friends go in when the wings folded, I too had a failure of an "I" strut on a Bi-plane at a Taylorcraft Fly-In, I am sure Lou Whitaker remembers that one. Fly safe , I ahve to make calls , the Cessna 340 that went sraight in was close to us here in Ohio. 4 fatal.

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

This comment from Bill pretty well sums up what anyway "I" need to do, and that is move on, ya, $3600.00 hurts, but, A/C struts check great, attachpoints clean as a pin, just as I thought, heck Jim Younkin doesn't do shaddy work, and all is ok, bird back in air, and I'm alot smarter for sure way smarter. So, thanks to all that have put up with me and some of my
"RANTING" I'm sure it kinda gets old, I'll tone it down, on and up I say

Thanks to to Forrest for his help on all of this, and in time all will work out for the Carts, and Hopefully Harry will find a new home

JS

[pftcraft]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Bill for President..! Well done son. My new struts (Airframes) are on but will now be off so I can complete the strut attach fittings check. Oh well, I'm still waiting for a response from (I know I know) the factory regarding my Jury strut attach fittings.. Going to have my favorite machine shop make them up under my AME's supervision instead. I will endeavor to not have anything to do with the factory again unless I get a personal apology. Why don't a bunch of us buy....never mind....

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Bill for President..! Well done son. My new struts (Airframes) are on but will now be off so I can complete the strut attach fittings check. Oh well, I'm still waiting for a response from (I know I know) the factory regarding my Jury strut attach fittings.. Going to have my favorite machine shop make them up under my AME's supervision instead. I will endeavor to not have anything to do with the factory again unless I get a personal apology. Why don't a bunch of us buy....never mind....

AMEN ON THAT BROTHER---------------->ME TOO

[crispy critter]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Bill,I want to thank you for saying what really needed to be said. Very well put my friend.I don't always agree with a select few of your ideas but that is just difference in opinions and only on selet things.However you certianly hit the nail on the head with this one. I hope we can meet sometime because I would like to buy you a beer...or 12...and help ya drink'em,lol.

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Ok, When Do You Want Me To Show Up


Js

[jstall]

Re: Anyone received their new factory struts yet?

Ok, When Do You Want Me To Show Up


Js

Problem is that if I get that far into Texas I'm going all the way to the border

Not sure that would be a good judgement considering my current demenor

JS