BC-12 vs BC-12D

[r webster]

Univair offers struts for the BC-12D. When I asked if they would fit my 1941 BC-12 they didn't know. Are the struts the same for thse two models?
Ron

[cpirrmann]

Re: BC-12 vs BC-12D

I beleive it would be. Wasn't the 'D' for 'Deluxe"?

[Ragwing nut]

Re: BC-12 vs BC-12D

No, "D" is the post war model. Brewar standard were denoted by "B" engine type "C", "L", or "F" and horsepower, ala BC-65, BL-65, BF-65. Any prewar with a "12" designation is a Deluxe ala BC12-65, BF12-65, etc. Yes the struts will work on the earlier airplanes.

Mike

[Winston L.]

Re: BC-12 vs BC-12D

Yes, models A - F22 have the same P/N struts. The only difference is the streamlined material cross-section size which was changed because of availability.

Univair only got approval for the BC-12D though.

[r webster]

BC12 vs BC12D again

Can I satisfy the legal requirements of the Strut AD by using Univair struts on my BC12 if Univair has only approval for the BC12D.

[Guest]

Re: BC12 vs BC12D again

Can I satisfy the legal requirements of the Strut AD by using Univair struts on my BC12 if Univair has only approval for the BC12D.

I don't see a BC-12 on the AD.

Is that the model number really?

If your model # is on the AD then I would say that the AD (which is approved data) confirms/approves the use of that p/n A-A814 and A-A854 on the a/c and if UNIVAIR makes that p/n (there's will be UA-A815...) then you will be ok using their sealed strut of that p/n and the AD just granted approval to UNIVAIR.

Dave

[Winston L.]

Re: BC12 vs BC12D again

The only model that Univair has PMA approval for is the BC-12D which is the post war airplane (per Univair). So the Univair struts cannot be installed on the 1941 Deluxe model without a field approval.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: BC12 vs BC12D again

I don't see a BC-12 on the AD.

Is that the model number really?

If your model # is on the AD then I would say that the AD (which is approved data) confirms/approves the use of that p/n A-A814 and A-A854 on the a/c and if UNIVAIR makes that p/n (there's will be UA-A815...) then you will be ok using their sealed strut of that p/n and the AD just granted approval to UNIVAIR.

Dave

He is missing the HP designation at the end of the model, should be BC-12-65

[Ragwing nut]

Re: BC12 vs BC12D again

The only model that Univair has PMA approval for is the BC-12D which is the post war airplane (per Univair). So the Univair struts cannot be installed on the 1941 Deluxe model without a field approval.

Ok, how can you have a PMA for a strut that does not cover all models on the same Type Certificate????? I think who ever you talked to does not have something correct. That effectively would require the struts to be installed with an STC if it does not cover all models under one TC if I am correct.

Mike

[Winston L.]

Re: BC12 vs BC12D again

The Univair representative told me that their struts were only approved for the BC-12D.

I thought maybe he didn't know what he was talking about but I asked a few other people there and received the same response. I also have had this problem with them on other parts.

[Guest]

Re: BC12 vs BC12D again

You guys missed the point.

The AD says put p/n A-A815 and A-A854 or approved equivalent on a list of model numbers.

That is the approval to put those parts on those models.

Because an AD is approved data. That makes it ok.

Go read ac65-19G maybe the one that describes IA authority.

AD's are approved data.

[r webster]

Re: BC12 vs BC12D again

That last response makes sense to me. Thanks Drude.
Ron

[barnstmr]

Re: BC12 vs BC12D again

The way the PMA legalities work is...

1) If one or more models were inadvertantly left off of Univair's PMA application paperwork, they did not get those models approved on the PMA supplement certificate (in the "eligibility" column).

2) The struts are only eligible for models listed on the FAA approved PMA supplement. An authorized mechanic can not install the parts on any models that are not listed on the approved PMA supplement, unless he has some other approved data. [As Dave R. points out, ADs ARE APPROVED DATA].

3) A&P's do not always check the PMA supplement eligibility. Many simply use the PMA ID tag that comes with the part (as approved data). This is generally acceptable to the FAA because it is illegal for suppliers to list on their PMA ID tags any models that are not included on their approved PMA supplement. Are you confused yet? This is our government process at work to make life simple.

One way to get approved data (if Univair does not make the effort to go back and submit FAA application to expand eligibility for your model) is for you to seek a field approval to install the struts on a model not listed on the PMA. This boils down to submitting a 337 without approved data and request your FSDO to approve it.

Or another way is to hire a structures DER to provide a DER approval (form 8110-3). In this case, you can submit your 337 with approved data.

[IN THIS CASE, YOU ALREADY HAVE APPROVED DATA. IT IS THE A.D.]

[Guest]

Re: BC12 vs BC12D again

Hi Terry, there is one more way. Well its not really another way its an elobaration on your #2.

I can exercise my priveledges as an IA to approve a 337 that describes the strut change based on the part # info in the AD as approved data and do it completely on my own. No feild approval (FA) needed, merely a 337 approval.

see http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...g-8082-11a.pdf

Section titled "BASIC FUNCTIONS OF AN IA"

I think this same message is in the 8300 series doc too, I just can't find it now.

I can't approve data but can use any approved data.

I did a similar thing a few months ago approving a change based on data in an STC even though the STC was not completely installed.

Dave

[Winston L.]

Re: BC12 vs BC12D again

Is the Univair P/N called out on the AD? I don't think it is.