Wonderful FAA

[flyguy]

Someone on here made a comment on what a great bunch of guys the FAA are. Try this one on. I personally know the individuals involved.

A local aircraft had a hard landing and was incorrectly pieced back together. A local AI saw the work and reported it to the FAA FSDO who said they would deadline the aircraft. Two months later the FSDO had not contacted the owners and the aircraft comes apart in flight, killling the two occupants. Everyone knew exactly where the aircraft was, it was not hidden.

Now the zinger: The local FSDO tells the AI to be quiet or he may have his license revoked.
I got this directly from the parties involved. I have flown in the aircraft involved and know the original owner and AI very well.

Second case. Repair station/QA manual written as a single document per FAA written guidelines document. After several sessions with FAA without any comment as to this being a problem the FSDO suddenly questions it being a single document. Shown the FAA guide they reply, "Oh, we've never seen that before."
Shown the specific examples of how the guide says the document can be combined as one they reply after much hemming and hawing, "That isn't really what it means."

Author of Repair manual exits FSDO, tells prospective manager of Repair Station that he is not prepared to deal with bureaucratic morons any further and throws manual in trash can.

Please no more of what a fine organization the FAA is, ok.
DC

[cpirrmann]

Re: Wonderful FAA

Remember Bob Hoover.

[Guest]

Re: Wonderful FAA

Remember Bob Hoover.

What happened to him?

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Wonderful FAA

While the FAA isn't perfect. You can address those imperfections to the
Inspector Generals Office. Complaints of bad things should be presented
to the people with the clout and skills to investigate them.
[email protected]
Here's a real persons email address in Washington.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[VictorBravo]

Re: Wonderful FAA

What happened to him?

The rumor is that an FAA employee took his son to an airshow, and walked over to the Aero Commander shortly after Hoover's dead stick routine to show him the plane, and the airplane greatly smelled of alcohol.

Again according to the ramp rumor, the FAA employee reported it, an investigation took place, and it was decided that they didn't want Hoover flying anymore.

At the time the FAA Administrator was a Navy Admiral, test pilot, and 100% well connected "good old boy" in all the right aviation circles. A decision was (supposedly) made that Mr. Hoover's reputation was not to be tarnished, period. (agreed 100% by me)

So the FAA aeromedical people came up with a semi-plausible story that Hoover's age and genetics had created some sort of cognitive disorder, or neuro-chemical issue, and they failed him on his medical.

For some reason, Hoover was insulted and began to fight like hell, hiring none other than Rudolph the Red-Nosed Bailey as his attorney (irony of a 180 proof pilot defendant hiring a 180 proof pilot attorney not to be overlooked).

For some reason (see "good old boy" above) the FAA never dropped the bomb publicly that Hoover was more or less caught flying under the influence. Perhaps a back room deal was made that he would never fly DUI again, go through rehab, and take a series of tougher medicals, etc, nobody knows.

Hoover was "triumphant" in defeating the FAA, got his license back, flew a couple of farewell airshows, and I believe is now retired from the airshow business.

All in all, considering the contributions Hoover has made, the fact he can fly better drunk than I can straight, and the bad publicity that would have been created for all of aviation, I think the FAA may have truly done the right thing in that case.

If someone knows differently about this story feel free to correct me.

[cpirrmann]

Re: Wonderful FAA

I heard nothing about alcohol. the storis I read all said that the FAA employee said that he felt Hoover's performance was 'shaky' and a medical investigation ensued. He passed all the required examinations and even examinations by the FAA's recommended doctors, but they still wouldn't give him his medical back. (I think they offered to let him have a third class). After a while, he went to Australia who gave him a medical certificate and he flew airshows there. After a few years, the FAA did give him a waiver I think or his class II but I'm not sure. But like you said, after a few shows, he retired. This is the first inkling I've heard of alcohol and I followed several sources on his story (which may have been fed by the same one like AP does) but I followed it with interest at the time being concerned with the FAA's ridiculous regs on medicals.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Wonderful FAA

I heard nothing about alcohol.

Well, like I said I related what the ramp rumors were. But the ramp rumor had gotten pretty well accepted, up to the point where I went to get my medical renewed and my doctor had heard it himself through the medical community.

Honestly I'd rather if it were not true, but I'd fly with him pickled or not pickled any day.

The whole thing about "a performance being shaky" was the official cover story rather than saying that he smelled booze. I have seen dozens of Hoover's performances and shaky is not a word that could ever be used by anyone under any circumstances.

[Vasey fan]

Re: Wonderful FAA

Mr. Hoover's imbibing was no secret to anyone who'd been around for awhile (consider that he was known to travel with a portable bar for the trunk of his courtesy car). Mantz, Tallman, Yeager, et al were known to tip a few and "bottle to throttle" be damned. Not making excuses, but those guys are/were products of a different time.

Ever hear tales from Frank Price's "Tiger Days"? Wish someone would write a book.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Wonderful FAA

Ever hear tales from Frank Price's "Tiger Days"? Wish someone would write a book.

What's that?

[Vasey fan]

Re: Wonderful FAA

After Frank came back from the first World Aerobatic Meet in Europe he started up the American Tiger Club (loosely based on the UK Tiger Club, I'm sure Rob can enlighten us in that area).

Anyway, Frank used to host Tiger Days on Memorial or Labor Day weekends. They would relocate festivities to a different duster strip each day to stay one step ahead of the FAA. I know a couple guys who were attendees, they say that Frank's only rule for the gathering was "Don't exceed your personal limitations".

There was much imbibing & aviating, including low level acro.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Wonderful FAA

Guys,

posts relevant to the AD thread have been moved there.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Wonderful FAA

thank you Rob , as to the Hoover situation: I WAS there in Cleveland, talk to me sometime. there was cause for concern if knowledgable about his airshow act. and YES folks back in the good old days a lot of stuff happened. wine, women & song!!! If a person never heard about the imbibing , they were not close to the performers.

[cpirrmann]

Re: Wonderful FAA

I have always wondered what happened to his nose. That seems to be common among heavy drinklers. But ....
Why would the FAA stick to their medical story, despite his having passed the tests, and end up looking like bumbling, intransigent fools? Is there something I missed?

[VictorBravo]

Re: Wonderful FAA

Why would the FAA (snip) end up looking like bumbling, intransigent fools? Is there something I missed?

I always just assumed that because the FAA Administrator at the time was a high-level good old boy in aviation he knew Hoover. Also, he may have let his agency take the hit in return for Hoover cleaning up his act and retiring from airshows without any more lawsuits. Bailey can be quite an irritant, as we may remember...