Fuselage strut fitting - FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet (merged)

[tawadc95]

Re: FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet

Mike G.,
I could not agree with you more, rust is a process.We have years to notice it ourselves as owners.
All this talk of lazy IA's not looking or missing this. Yes there are very poor IA's out there but everyone here says there's is great
Where is the talk about the aircraft owners responsibility,who spends the most time with the bird anyways.
We the owners should be the ones finding or checking for problems on our birds.If we do our part we would be less susceptible to a nanny state decision.

[tawadc95]

Re: Fuselage Fitting Airworthiness Concern / SB / AD

That is gross beyond gross.
I too wonder what that is inside the tubing and further HOW IT GOT THERE.
It does not appear to be new so was that tube in half at some time ?
It also appears to have some algae on it in a couple of small spots if so it was very wet for awhile.

[cpirrmann]

Re: Fuselage Fitting Airworthiness Concern / SB / AD

Oh, BTW, thanks for posting the pictures, very useful info.

[cpirrmann]

Re: Fuselage Fitting Airworthiness Concern / SB / AD

I'd also like to ask, were the surrounding material and fittings corroded as they appear or was that a result from being in the water after the crash?

[mhorowit]

Re: Fuselage Fitting Airworthiness Concern / SB / AD

Is that a red shop rag stuffed into the end of the strut? It appears to have been there for some time. It that black stuff on it char from welding or black mold?

See AC 43.13 "Internal Splice by Shop Cloth".

Was this area covered by fabric or float stuff? - MikeH

[mhorowit]

Re: FAA Airworthiness Concern Sheet

A relatively simple part, combination of access plate and protective fairing, could make it a lot easier to inspect for existing corrosion and help prevent corrosion in the future.

Bill - could you sketch out what your're envisioning? Fabric classically covering the attachment points would have to be secured someplace other than the longeron - Mike

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Fuselage Fitting Airworthiness Concern / SB / AD

HELLO! this is not the cause of the wing strut AD ; this is the reason for the AWC sheet on the attach fitting, as you can see it pulled off the fuselage..... don''t get mixed up. somewhere there is a post about N70K , that was a floatplane at Brown's that I flew for my rating a few years back. It had issues back then.

[ROllerton]

Re: Fuselage Fitting Airworthiness Concern / SB / AD

Is that a red shop rag stuffed into the end of the strut? It appears to have been there for some time. It that black stuff on it char from welding or black mold?

[VictorBravo]

Re: Fuselage Fitting Airworthiness Concern / SB / AD

the photos of the strut attach fittings that failed on the Wiley ship.

Oh my God... the F*&%NG Taylorcraft factory used THAT as fodder to sell new wing struts !

Foxtrot Yankee, Mr. Ingram. You will never see so much as a dollar from me.

Forrest, would you please post the photos of the lower 12 inches of the affected wing strut on that ship.

Assuming that the lower end of the struts, the bolt, and the knuckle of that fitting are still bolted together in one piece, which I am assuming they did... I will be contacting a Beverly Hills attorney that I know who just loves high profile plaintiff's cases. I will approach that attorney on behalf of 3,000 taylorcraft owners, with the idea that even though a Taylorcraft wing strut held together long enough for the Wiley ship fitting to be corroded to that unbelievable degree, instead of the Taylorcraft factory and the FAA issuing a "medal of honor" for the strut... they instead chose to call the integrity of the strut itself into question and issue a very questinoable service bulletin and subsequent AD... because there was more money in strut sales.

Instead of addressing what was an obvious and crystal clear fuselage corrosion issue, the FAA at the urging of the factory took steps that could easily have resulted in another seaplane coming apart inflight, after the strut AD was complied with but while the fuselage was still dangerously corroded.

"Your Honor and Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, if the factory and the FAA had not used that critical period of time to maximize sales of new wing struts, they could have used that same crucial period of time to contact the Taylorcraft owners... not only by the normal channels but by jumping onto the immediate, life-saving communication that was there for the asking on the Taylorcraft Forum... and perhaps Mr. Clapsaddle and his mechanic would have been instructed to look at the part of his aircraft that was dangerous.

"But instead, Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr. Ingram and his minions in the federal bureaucracy were more concerned about sending Taylorcraft owners bulletins with the proper part numbers for ordering new wing struts, or subjecting them to excessive and intentionally difficult inspection tasks on the wrong parts in order to bludgeon them into knuckling under and buying $3,000 worth of Mr. Ingram's struts.

"Here is the strut from the Wiley crash, and here is the strut from the Clapsaddle crash. Despite years of corrosion in a salt water enviroinment they held together and WOULD HAVE held together long enough... during those last critical weeks while the real danger was being bottom-drawered..."

If someone at the factory, the FAA, or the NTSB is remaining silent or playing it close to the vest out of fear of lawsuits, they should know that a WORSE lawsuit can and would land on their ass BECAUSE they played it close to the vest.

The only thing that would put them on the high road in that environment is if they were shown to have done the right thing as soon as possible, and through whatever was the fastest and most effective means of communication. A jury would LOVE to hear that someone kept the discussions private, or didn't participate on an internet group... because they were not obligated to do so

[Robert Lees]

Re: Fuselage Fitting Airworthiness Concern / SB / AD

My word!.....

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Fuselage Fitting Airworthiness Concern / SB / AD

The Experimential certificate was PROBABLY issued to comply with the testing of Auto Fuel.... Bless you Bill any many others, I too have voiced these thoughts to the FAA engineer, I am one voice, Bill is one voice, petitions do not work in this matter, continue to voice your thoughts, all will be condensed for a final appeal to common sense .

I have been away since Friday, back from MERFI EAA Mid Eastern Regional Fly-In) , set up two BC12D fuselages for research on pending SB on attach fitting, one F-22 also. Had to fly with four students, CFI Spin awareness, two TW transition, put new blades on both mowers, immediately broke the belt on the little one, did some welding on Ryan Newells ship ( yes Ryan we fixed it). have been reviewing the photos of the strut attach fittings that failed on the Wiley ship. Boy I hope I don't push the wrong button on this keyboard..... Disregard plea for help Bob! back later.

[alwaysoar]

Re: Fuselage Fitting Airworthiness Concern / SB / AD

To Ifries, Unless you know something the rest of us don't know, sealed struts FAA/PMA or factory are approved. The AD reads that compliance must occur on 8/20 with/in 5 hours, etc., unless previously complied with.

[dedrekon]

Re: Fuselage Fitting Airworthiness Concern / SB / AD

Wiley's was licensed as an experimental, presumably because of the modifications done during one or more of it's rebuilds. It WAS a Taylorcraft.......but not by it's legal definition.

I don't recall seeing any unusual mods on the airplane and I doubt it could've been licensed "experimental" these days, what with the new stricter adherence to the 51% rule.


v

[cpirrmann]

Re: Fuselage Fitting Airworthiness Concern / SB / AD

2: Wiley's airplane was NOT a Taylorcraft, at least not by the FAA's definition. It was an experimental airplane and was flown under the rules that govern experimental airplanes. They have different standards of inspection....and any AD's that would be issued for Taylorcrafts would not legally have applied to his airplane.

regards,
Vincent

This is the first I've heard of this. Any elaboration?

[VictorBravo]

Re: Fuselage Fitting Airworthiness Concern / SB / AD

Thank you Ed for the compliment, but my wife asked me to tell you to please do not feed the ego too much. She's the only person on earth who seems to know that I am wrong about everything every day...

While I have the time and energy to duke it out over this stuff I will do so, but my work/financial life has this nasty habit of reshuffling the cards on me at the most inopportune times. Writers are almost as always as filthy slimy rich as Taylorcraft owners

I just wish that the FAA engineer McAnaul and any credible factory rep (if one exists) would participate in these discussions about the AD and the fittings. If anyone knows what is going on behind the scenes I'd sure love to know.