Price and availability of wing lift struts

[Guest]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

I missed the griping, guess that was a blessing.

Oh yes they are concerned, expect a strut AD any day now that is NOT related to the accident.

I also made the FAA engineer I talked to aware of the old strut fitting AD 47-16-03. We looked it up together BUT it is a one time inspection so that does not help this situation.

Dave

[Larry Lyons]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

As a "babe in the woods" to Taylorcraft rebuilding I have no problem with dong a check on the struts. After all we are talking about a 66 year old plane (in my case) and it will be my Butt on the line once airborne. However is there no other way other then spending several hundreds of dollars every one or two years? Another concern will be accessibility of this test apparatus! I agree with Forest, lets take the initiative. OK I will now shut up as it will not be me taking that lead. As I know nothing it about other then owning 4 struts that I now; do not trust and will not, till checked to my satisfaction.
Larry

[DanBrown]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

I, for one, want to get my bird checked ASAP. What would be the best way to comply with the SB (and/or the proposed AD)?
Are there specific shops to go to that have the equipment, or would you have the local shop rent or borrow the equipment?

[mhorowit]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

WE all know this, now quit gripping amongst yourselves and comment to the FAA on the SB , I will not print mine yet as it does no good to merely copy someone else. Use your own expert reasoning and comment.

Well, if we handle this like the EAA is handling the GA user fee business....

Give me an address to write and tell me the saliant points to make and I'll write a letter. - MikeH

[astjp2]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

Well there is always the Maule fabric tester and a punch test every 1/4 inch for the bottom 9" of the strut....it still sounds like the sky is falling to me.

How can they issue an AD for an accident for an experimental aircraft?

There still have been no official (NTSB/FAA) stats for failures quoted other than a few people saying that they had to replace stuts during an inspection or a rebuild. Isn't that when things are supposed to be found? Tim

[N96337]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

....it still sounds like the sky is falling to me.

How can they issue an AD for an accident for an experimental aircraft?

There still have been no official (NTSB/FAA) stats for failures quoted other than a few people saying that they had to replace stuts during an inspection or a rebuild. Isn't that when things are supposed to be found? Tim

AMEN!!! Everyone is jumping to conclusions, and crying about the struts, and NOBODY knows what failed....for crying out loud...why panic? For one thing, if everyone's crying about it, that will make it appear that the owners are afraid of their struts failing...hmmmm...falls right into the factory's hands of "we can sell you parts" (didn't we hear something about this when the factory was going down??). I say shut up until we find out what happened, and what caused it... a good chance remains that it wasn't related to the strut... let's let the investigators find out what happened before everyone goes out and condemns a bunch of parts. There have been some great points brought up about aged parts and more thorough inspections on certain applications, and that's what is great about a forum..... but let's leave the verdict alone until the people that are involved with the investigation give us their findings. I'm not sure just how this got hung on the struts, but there has been NO real evidence that it was a strut failure yet... Don't jump off the roof until you're sure the house is on fire!!
JH

[astjp2]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

I think that you have hit the nail with the hammer, I think that owners are the ones that are more concerned than what the A&P's and IA's are....I sure do not want to change struts just because somebody else might have a problem. Our aircraft are getting older, lets work together to provide data if it is requested. I have the original prewar struts still on my airplane, (the tube size is different than modern streamline tubing) and I did media blast, inspect and punchtest my lower end of the struts during my rebuild last summer. I used the same alternate process that the piper guys use. My aircraft has been in the desert its whole live and I did not have a problem but maybe someone in Seattle or Gerogia may have a corrosion issue. I also shot some paraketone in my struts with a syringe and rolled it around to reduce my potential for a problem. If Forrest asks for us to provide data then I think we should so that we could all help relieve this panic that some owners seem to have. Enough of my soap box for now...Tim

[Guest]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

I spent most of Wednesday investigating and making phone calls.

I spoke with FAA engineers & managers, Taylorcraft and inspection people.

I shared about 80% of what I learned with this group.

If you perceived that as whining or panic to bad for you.

There is a AD in process that reads ALMOST like the T-craft service bulletin and as I said in this thread earlier it is not related to this accident.

A second AD is being considered now that is related to the accident.

I told them they would ground the fleet with the timing and methods involved in this AD.

So for those of you who are outspoken enough that you would like to also call the FAA contact me and I will give you names and numbers to call.

They were pleasant helpful people willing to listen and discuss.

Dave

[M Towsley]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

Kevin,

Reread my post, perhaps you misunderstood. I'm not sure how, though. How did your name come up??? I think I said, safety is "paramount", ie. "Superior to all other", ie. 'Important'. I'm just recalling the earlier push by Mr. Ingram to increase strut sales.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

Well said Dave & I totally agree, remember the NTSB can also investigate
( and does) the FAA .
Safety is the consideration, Piper struts had a problem the AD was sensible, the Piper lift strut forks were a problem, the AD was sensible. It only follows that Taylorcraft with the far better record should ahve a sensible AD, and YES if we ahve to replace our struts as a teminating thing we will do just that , IF necessary. The one time AD back in 1946 on the strut attach fittings should have been continuedd.

[O.Taylor]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

this has shown up on the NSB website:
On July 28, 2007, about 1148 Pacific daylight time, a float equipped Taylorcraft BF-12, N13060, was destroyed following an uncontrolled descent and subsequent collision with water near West Linn, Oregon. The local instructional flight was conducted under the provisions of Title 14 CFR Part 91. The two occupants, an airline transport pilot/certified flight instructor (owner and operator of the airplane) seated in the left front seat and an airline transport pilot/certified flight instructor (CFI) seated in the right front seat, were fatally injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed. The flight originated from Lake Oswego, Oregon, approximately 25 minutes prior to the accident.

Witnesses reported that the airplane was in a climbing left turn approximately 100 feet above the water when it abruptly pitched to a nose-low attitude and impacted the water.
more to come in time, O.T.

[crispy critter]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

Kevin,

Reread my post, perhaps you misunderstood. I'm not sure how, though. How did your name come up??? I think I said, safety is "paramount", ie. "Superior to all other", ie. 'Important'. I'm just recalling the earlier push by Mr. Ingram to increase strut sales.

Sorry Marty,your correct, I miss understood what you meant by paramount...hope I didn't offend you because that was not my intention either way.....I just wanted to state my opinion on the AD. I hate the thought of an AD on the struts or anywhere else for that matter but it would be much worse to start loosing friends. I have had a few t-crafts both flying and projects. Several of them had rust in the struts that would have never been seen if I hadn't started poking around on them to check for rust. They are rusting from the inside out and sometimes the only thing keeping the rust holes from showing is the paint. It is my understanding that severl people lost there lives before the AD came out on the pipers. I would like to see something addressed before the same thing starts happening to our t-crafts. I know most of the pipers were used for work horses,bush planes,etc and if the based the AD soley on the J-3 then they might not have an AD yet either. These T-crafts are one of the worlds best airplanes ever made...let's try to do whatever it takes to keep the grimlins away from them.

[dmcneil]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

Hi All,

As a long time J-2 Taylor Cub owner, I feel your pain. We went through this whole adventure back in the 1990's. There were a series of Service Bulletins from Piper dating back to October of 1976 (!) and then the original AD was issued in1993. Another superseding AD was issued in 1999... actually two AD's as they forgot to add the J-2 Cub to the first AD. We J-2 owners have our very own AD now. Not sure if that makes us lucky or what...

A couple of thoughts. If I remember correctly, the original SB and AD were in response to a couple of strut failures in PA-18 banner tow airplanes on the East Coast. All strut braced Pipers wound up being subject to the AD. I wouldn't be shocked to hear that all models of strut braced Taylorcrafts would be subject to any new AD.

The second superseding AD had an associated NPRM period. The FAA response to the comments was included in the AD. Here they are:

"Both commenters request that the FAA reference Univair Aircraft Corporation lift strut assemblies in the AD. Univair holds a parts manufacturer approval (PMA) for parts that are identical to the improved design Piper lift strut assemblies referenced in the NPRM.

The FAA does not concur. FAA policy is to not reference PMA parts in AD's, unless the FAA determines that the unsafe condition applies to the PMA parts. If these Univair parts are installed, then the actions of this AD would not apply because the parts are an FAA-approved equivalent to the improved design Piper lift strut assemblies that, when installed, eliminate the repetitive inspection requirement of the AD.

No changes have been made to the AD based on these comments."

So, it seems that the use of Univair FAA/PMA struts might not be an issue. It would certainly be something to get definitively verified, though.

I replaced my lift struts on the J-2 with Univair struts. Since Univair doesn't make J-2 struts, we used J-3 struts. That needed a field approval. And that
needed to go to FAA engineering! Took 6-7 months. Just something to consider if all model Taylorcrafts are included in the AD. It sure would help if the FAA engineers could identify acceptable replacement struts up front rather than having to go through the field approval process on the back side.

Dan McNeill
1936 Taylor J-2 Cub

[btbell]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

So for those of you who are outspoken enough that you would like to also call the FAA contact me and I will give you names and numbers to call.

Hi Dave,

Yes, please share names and numbers. The last FAA contact given (posted a while ago) that I called did not want to speak to everyone about this issue.

Thanks,
Brian

[Guest]

Re: Price and availability of wing lift struts

I have only phone numbers not addresses. In my post I offered to share phone numbers. I suppose if you call it they can give you an address.

I will not publish anyone's phone number on a forum.

I would not want that done to me and therefore will not do it to anyone else.

If you want to call the FAA contact me privately if you would like the numbers that I called. I'll ask you also to refrain from posting it as I do not want to be part of that.

Dave.