Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

[Guest]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

I spent most of Wednesday investigating and making phone calls.

I spoke with FAA engineers & managers, Taylorcraft and inspection people.

I shared about 80% of what I learned with this group.

If you perceived that as whining or panic to bad for you.

There is a AD in process that reads ALMOST like the T-craft service bulletin and as I said in this thread earlier it is not related to this accident.

A second AD is being considered now that is related to the accident.

I told them they would ground the fleet with the timing and methods involved in this AD.

So for those of you who are outspoken enough that you would like to also call the FAA contact me and I will give you names and numbers to call.

They were pleasant helpful people willing to listen and discuss.

Dave

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Let's read the reports as they come out. The NTSB released the preliminary. They too do not know the nature of the flight Dave was in the left seat, the Experimential may have been for the purpose of an Auto Fuel STC. I am in contact with Dave's son. check it out as it gets investigated. I give dual in Experimental aircraft, I follow the regs.

https://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20070808X01147&key=1

NTSB Identification: SEA07LA217
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, July 28, 2007 in West Linn, OR
Aircraft: Taylorcraft BF12, registration: N13060
Injuries: 2 Fatal.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

On July 28, 2007, about 1148 Pacific daylight time, a float equipped Taylorcraft BF-12, N13060, was destroyed following an uncontrolled descent and subsequent collision with water near West Linn, Oregon. The local instructional flight was conducted under the provisions of Title 14 CFR Part 91. The two occupants, an airline transport pilot/certified flight instructor (owner and operator of the airplane) seated in the left front seat and an airline transport pilot/certified flight instructor (CFI) seated in the right front seat, were fatally injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed. The flight originated from Lake Oswego, Oregon, approximately 25 minutes prior to the accident.

Witnesses reported that the airplane was in a climbing left turn approximately 100 feet above the water when it abruptly pitched to a nose-low attitude and impacted the water.

Index for Jul2007 | Index of months

As I mentioned before I am making phone calls and doing follow-up. More later let us not jump way ahead. thanks Forrest

[jdoran]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Please help me. I have an F-19 on floats, and I operate in brackish water on the Chesapeake Bay.

What I'm hearing is that I need to closely check the struts themselves, but more importantly the bracket and surrounding area where the strut attaches to the fuselage. Some questions:

Should I remove the seat and webbing/sling to do it right, or do you think I can see enough without it?

Can I do a simple tap test on the bottom of the struts to at least get some peace of mind while the forma inspection processes are determined?

Do you think some fabric needs to be cut away from the tubing to really check the welds and to look for corrosion? (You are right about the wood potentially holding moisture)

Maybe I am technically exempt because of the model, but I want to use common sense here. I'll take any suggestions.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Please help me. I have an F-19 on floats, and I operate in brackish water on the Chesapeake Bay.

What I'm hearing is that I need to closely check the struts themselves, but more importantly the bracket and surrounding area where the strut attaches to the fuselage. Some questions:

Should I remove the seat and webbing/sling to do it right, or do you think I can see enough without it?

Can I do a simple tap test on the bottom of the struts to at least get some peace of mind while the forma inspection processes are determined?

Do you think some fabric needs to be cut away from the tubing to really check the welds and to look for corrosion? (You are right about the wood potentially holding moisture)
Maybe I am technically exempt because of the model, but I want to use common sense here. I'll take any suggestions.

You are not exempt, F-19 is included in the AD. A tap test will tell you very little if nothing.


Mike

[Buell Powell]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

It looks to me like the fittings can be seen from the inside of the fuselage and that would be where water would collect to rust them. It also looks like it would take moisture over a long period of time to rust them enough to cause them to fail. If an inspection hole was cut in the floor where the front fittings are and the seat was removed then they could be inspected. These fittings are not so they would rust from the inside without detection like struts. It would be very easy to not cover the fittings on the outside and the complete fitting can be inspected. I don't think land based planes would have this problem especialy if they are hangered. Float planes really need to be carefully inspected and the fabric not covering any part of the fitting to allow inspection and prevent moisture from being traped. Prehaps it should be required as part of an annual to inspect the fittings visually. I don't claim to be an expert on this but this just seems to be common sense
Buell Powell

[Buell Powell]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

John,
If you want to inspect he front fittings just remove the cable covers that att to the lower door frame and floor. I would definitly go ahead and remove the rear seat and check the rear fittings. It looks like a likley place for moisture and I believe on the F19s one of the float att. fittings is welded on the bottom of it and could cause more stress. There is a small space where the fitting is welded together that I would clean out and use a magnifing glass to check. If you find any rust you should clean it off and check to see if there are any pitts. If it is just surface rust treat it with something like ospho and prime it with either epoxy primer or zink chromate. If you find pitting or cracks dont fly it until you get it repaired.This is something I would do before I would fly it again and then see what the AD requires. Hope this helps
Buell

[Buell Powell]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

John, Just thought -unless you are an A@P, and see anything that looks like a problem you would need to show it to someone who is certified and mabey wait until the SB or AD come out before you do or have anything done. But for sure take a look and not fly it if you see any potential problems until you get it checked.If you don't see anything the little time it takes to check would be well worth the time.

[jdoran]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Buell and Mike,

Thanks for the advice. I'm not an A+P, but I still want to take a good look if possible without taking the plane apart.

I don't know Wiley, but he sounds like he's too smart to have corrosion staring him in the face for years and keep flying with it.

Just that alone tells me that this corrosion must really be hidden from view. I think I'm more concerned about the brackets on the fuselage than the struts at this point.

[Guest]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Buell and Mike,

Thanks for the advice. I'm not an A+P, but I still want to take a good look if possible without taking the plane apart.

I don't know Wiley, but he sounds like he's too smart to have corrosion staring him in the face for years and keep flying with it.

Just that alone tells me that this corrosion must really be hidden from view. I think I'm more concerned about the brackets on the fuselage than the struts at this point.

FAA guy told me that the fabric had been covering the fitting, in fact stuffed into the fitting cavities and appeared to have held moisture and debris.

Was that the cause? dunno

[Buell Powell]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Yeah-most of the planes I have seen the fabric is glued to cover most of the fittings and the fabric paint is sprayed to cover it. The fabric paint doesn't stick to the fittings very well and you can peel it off easliy and the primer comes with it and there is usually rust under the loose paint. I use Stits and always paint the fittings,lift handles, etc before I cover with the Aerothane paint to match the fabric color that is made for painting the metal parts, About the ony way it will come loose is with paint stripper and rust cant get under the paint. I don't have experiance with float planes but from restoring old wooden boats- if there is a place where moisture can collect and some debri to hold it it will eventualy start to rust and once the protective coating is gone can start eating into the metal. I think if I had a plane that was subject to moisture I would first look at the fittings from the inside of the fuselage and if the fabric was covering the fittings on the outside see if it was loose and if it will peel off remove it and prime and paint the fitting with paint that is made for metal then just glue a fabric patch to the outer part of the fitting.

[Guest]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

When I recovered mine I attempted to keep the fabric away from the fitting so it was mostly all exposed to it would be easy to inspect.

That was mostly becuase the when I sandblasted the fuselage prior to recovering I found that fitting did have cracks.

I made an approved repair but was anxious about continued visibility.

I guess it may have helped me in other ways too since nothing accumulates there and they dry out quickly.

[Buell Powell]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Sounds like you had the same idea I had. None of the ones I saw were damaged but after noticing that the paint was cracking and would fkake off with a pocket knife on some planes I wanted to make sure to prevent it. I think the biggest problem is where after the fabric is glued on. Poly brush or dope is sprayed on the metal parts that only have primer -the silver-and the paint. All this becomes brittle after aging and cracks or flakes off. If you paint the exposed metal parts first with a good paint such as Aerothane and mask off any part that doesnt have fabric glued to it when you start applying the fabric dope-etc you shouldnt have problems.

[dedrekon]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

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