Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

If you own a bridge over the Mississippi River... you'll likely have a required inspection too.
With regards; ED OBRIEN

[Tom G]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Being from the East Coast I did not know this person but he obviously was deservedly well regarded and he will be sorely missed. What a resume!!

I'm very anxious as I'm sure we all are to find out what caused this unspeakable tragedy. There may have been others but this is the first wing failure in a T-Craft that I've ever heard of.

The strut issue will definitely come into the spotlight after this and I think it should in any event but especially if this failure was due to corrosion in the struts. I'm looking closely at mine. My airplane was fully restored in the 90s and the wings were totally disassembled and rebuilt. My right rear strut was replaced back in 01 and the other three were new in 1972 and the airplane was disassembled and inside from 1982 to 1999 so I should be ok.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

I made it back from OSH Airventure, had to catch up here. One of our ships was at Dayton, learned about Jim Leroy, found out about Dave Wiley yesterday. Got onto the internet today.
I share many thoughts that have been expressed by all, I have Dave's tapes, we talked a few times, I learned from him. I send my personal condolences and the same from the Taylorcraft Foundation on this thread.
Dave died doing what he LOVED to do what more can be said!

As to the cause let's see what the investigators from the NTSB learn, could someone from near there post the offical obituary for our files here.
Just catching up on the tragedy will be continued this afternoon.

I am giving a flight review in a Taylorcraft "B" this evening, then I may go out this evening and "kick" start my Cherokee and just go for a ride.
Farewell old friend from another "true believer". Forrest

[dedrekon]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Dave Wiley Obituary from the Oregonian:

David Howard Wiley
Thursday, August 02, 2007
A memorial service will be at 2 p.m. Sunday, Aug. 26, 2007, in the south end hangar in the Aurora Airport for David Howard Wiley, who died July 28, 2007, in a float plane accident at age 80.

Mr. Wiley was born Feb. 18, 1927, in Portland, and moved to Jennings Lodge in about 1935. He graduated from Oregon City High School and received bachelor's degrees from Lewis & Clark College and Oregon State College. During World War II, he served in the Navy. He moved to Lake Oswego in 1954, and took over his father's business, J.A. Wiley Commercial Flooring, in 1964, and also owned Wiley's Seaplanes and T-Craft Float Plane. He was a certified ski instructor on Mount Hood for 33 years and taught first aid, water, and boating safety for the American Red Cross. In 1952, he married Joanne Bowerman.

Survivors include his wife; daughter, Valerie W. Cooper; sons, Jeffrey, Gregory and Timothy; and eight grandchildren.

Remembrances to the Dave Wiley Memorial Scholarship Fund at U S Bank branches. Arrangements by Heritage Memorial

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Thank you Vincent, a true pilgrim. Can you get me a phone number for the NTSB investigator or the office... I am going to walk around the airport a bit with Kelli-Belle and may not check in till tomorrow....

[whake]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

I hope we get a good report on the seaplane crash. It could of been a climbing stall spin situation, with a student pilot. Taylorcrafts just don't breakup in slow flight. I just had a vidio of the Oskosh crash. it did not look like an attempt to do a planned formation landing the trailing plane was high and back too far. When the lead plane touched down he was immediatly overrun. The trailing plane tried to pull up on contact, he went inverted over the lead plane and crashed to the right. Formation landings and takeoffs require a lot of hours of basic training.The cardinal rule is that the lead plane touches down last.. I will say that again the lead plane touches down last.....

[M Towsley]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Walter,

The preliminary NTSB report is online for the Mustang crash, they were not landing in formation as it appeared. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...01X01080&key=1

[Darren Lucke]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Knew of Beck - and had met / talked with Bob Odegaard - stood beside his plane, stopped at his hangar, seemed like a nice guy - sad to see this happen - they did nice work, nice planes, and were always going to a show somewhere with them - very active! North Dakota guys!

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Back to Dave Wiley, the NTSB has recovered certain parts to be tested at the lab in D.C. They arrived there on Friday. The NTSB Investigator assigned to the accident told me that it is "factual' at this point that a failure occured at the lower end of the lift struts "or below". Meaning the A-A11 strut attach assembly mentioned in AD 47-16-03.

This is the famous assembly that had failures back in 1946-47 on Seaplanes only and was really due to an improper welding at the factory on a very few aircraft. I personally inspect this area each 100 hrs or annually any how.
I was going to hold back on reporting this at this time but feel we out in the field should get this ASAP. More as I get it, lets not jump around a lot with any more supposition. I did ask that the NTSB look into another area
( wing spar butts) for a possible failure prior to the lower failure.
I did learn that this aircraft was being flown under Experimential certification. Anybody know why??

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

I now know that the ship was indeed , N13060, ser#2786 registered to Dave as a 1941 Taylorcraft BF12-65 with a C85 engine. " Experimental " to show compliance with FAR. The 13060 was not an original number, ser# 2786 weighed 746 lbs. and was flown 4-29-1941. She was produced under the Type Certificate # 699 . From pictures I have been told was this ship it has a "D" tail , more as we get it. I wonder what was the purpose of the flight?

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Back to Dave Wiley, the NTSB has recovered certain parts to be tested at the lab in D.C. They arrived there on Friday. The NTSB Investigator assigned to the accident told me that it is "factual' at this point that a failure occured at the lower end of the lift struts "or below". Meaning the A-A11 strut attach assembly mentioned in AD 47-16-03.

This is the famous assembly that had failures back in 1946-47 on Seaplanes only and was really due to an improper welding at the factory on a very few aircraft. I personally inspect this area each 100 hrs or annually any how.
I was going to hold back on reporting this at this time but feel we out in the field should get this ASAP. More as I get it, lets not jump around a lot with any more supposition. I did ask that the NTSB look into another area
( wing spar butts) for a possible failure prior to the lower failure.
I did learn that this aircraft was being flown under Experimential certification. Anybody know why??

If it was being flown under an EXP certificate, how can it be used to push an AD through on certified Taylorcrafts? With an EXP ticket, it may as well been a flying volkswagen as far as the FAA is concerned.

Mike

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Mike , no body said anything about pushing through an AD; the proposed AD is for wing struts not attach fittings., although all should be inspected more often. Yes I mentioned to the NTSB that it is Experimental & 699 TC.....
he understands my ( our) position.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Mike , no body said anything about pushing through an AD; the proposed AD is for wing struts not attach fittings., although all should be inspected more often. Yes I mentioned to the NTSB that it is Experimental & 699 TC.....
he understands my ( our) position.

I was talking to another board member earlier today and the word is this accident has lit a fire under the FAA regarding the proposed strut AD which appears to be definite now along with further possible mandatory inspections.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

Gentlemen, I think it is a wise move for us as a group to beat everyone else to the punch and at least START to develop an inspection procedure... NOW.

That way, when the NTSB or FAA contacts Forrest and says the FAA is starting to spin their wheels on an AD, Forrest can say "Here, we've already done all the research and came up with something that YOU should also be happy with... this proposed document allows for three different types of inspection, and two types of repairs to insure that the aircraft remain safe in flight..."

My point is that other entities and for-profit organizations may already be "working" with the FAA on this, pushing an agenda with a particular emphasis on the solution that benefits them most. The owners should be coming up with something that meets all safety guidelines and yet ALSO represents common sense for the benefit of the owners.

My aircraft has new front struts and was restored properly in 1995, so this may not affect me personally. But nonetheless I am spending a few hundred bucks later this month to have an X-ray inspection on this very part of the airplane. Someone at the local airport is arranging for his plane, mine, and one other T-craft to be X-rayed at the lower strut/LG attach/bottom longeron junction. This type of NDT should CLEARLY be one of the options incorporated into whatever final AD or SB is issued.

(Anyone in the Los Angeles area who wants in on the X-ray about 3 weeks from now please contact me)

I strongly suggest that there be a meeting of the minds, between the old gray haired heads with decades of Taylorcraft experience, any structures or metals engineers, the IA's, and anyone having significant experience with corrosion in old steel tube airplanes. All those people should put aside any previous differences and get together with the Foundation (whose president apparently meets all the above qualifications anyway ) and generate a proposed list of methods of compliance and/or inspection procedures that will guarantee no more aircraft are lost this way.

I (and I'm sure any of the other "writer types" here) will be glad to draft a very compelling proposal to the FAA based on the recommendations from the gray hair types.

Only THIS way will the needs of our group be addressed equally to the needs of others. The other entities, FAA, NTSB, factory, any old or new strut manufacturers have their own agendas that may or may not address some simpler or cheaper ways to inspect a Taylorcraft for flight safety in this area.

Bill

[alwaysoar]

Re: Taylorcraft Float Plane Crash

The old AD on the lower strut fitting gives me the jitters. Would someone post a pic of that area perhaps highlighting where cracks might appear. If where I think it is is where I'm checking, it looks like a very substantial weld. I also just installed new front struts and thouroghly inspected the rears, but that will do no good if the attach fitting is corroded.

Ed@BTV VT
TF 527