Partnerships or whatever

[mhorowit]

I know nothing about joint ownership of an aircraft.
Someone I know at the field I wish to locate to is offering to sell their share in a Tcraft. If I took up the offer, I'd be able to get in some flying while my project is plodding along.
I think the current agreement between the three partners was with a handshake and I have no idea what the arrangements are if the a/c needs repair, or if someone totals it, etc.
Would someone care to offer advice; I'm of the opinion a verbal agreement is worth the paper it was written on. - Mike

[Howard Wilson]

Re: Partnerships or whatever

Hi Mike, Have you checked out AOPA's website under 'Pilot Information Center' 'Aircraft Ownership' 'Related Topics' 'Pilot Guide to Multiple Ownership'. Tons of info. H

[joelharris]

Re: Partnerships or whatever

Mike,

I have had 2 partnerships, one in my first F-19 and one in my J-3.
Both have been fairly successful. the F-19 was pretty much a handshake deal, when I sold 2/3rds of my J-3 we came up with a contract etc.
I highly recommend the later...there will come a time when someone will need a gentle reminder of their obligation to the fellow owners.
We used a book we got at the local FBO's pilot shop, had sample contracts etc.

One great aspect to both my partnerships is in both cases hardly anyone else flew the A/C...I think this is true of many of these arrangments.
We had 10 people sharing expenses in the F-19 and 2 of us flew it regularly.

One potential pitfall is when it time to sell your share...what are the arrangements to off load it? will your partners buy you out?

Hope this is helpful,

Joel

I know nothing about joint ownership of an aircraft.
Someone I know at the field I wish to locate to is offering to sell their share in a Tcraft. If I took up the offer, I'd be able to get in some flying while my project is plodding along.
I think the current agreement between the three partners was with a handshake and I have no idea what the arrangements are if the a/c needs repair, or if someone totals it, etc.
Would someone care to offer advice; I'm of the opinion a verbal agreement is worth the paper it was written on. - Mike

[Len Petterson]

Re: Partnerships or whatever

Put it all in wrighting I see one fellow what spent 15 K on something what cant fly.
Condition of the aircraft, when and to do work and how can fly when. and do you have the same disposable income as the rest of the owners? ask around, how is how? good friends are hard to come by and worth more then some some flying hours!
Good Luck!
Len

[mgold]

Re: Partnerships or whatever

GET IT IN WRITING. KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING UP FRONT. ONE MAN'S ADVISE.

[alwaysoar]

Re: Partnerships or whatever

I was in a partnership on a C-150, a huge mistake. Never again!! Unless you know the partners very well, I would be very cautious.

[DanBrown]

Re: Partnerships or whatever

Mike,

I've been in 5 partnerships (3-5 persons) and 5 incorporated non-profit "flying clubs" (generally 5 or more persons per aircraft). All the clubs were formal arrangements with by-laws, club officers, etc.. Four of the partnerships were hand shake deals, but with pilots I already knew from the clubs or work. We had similar interests and often flew together. We had agreed beforehand on how to split costs and what to do about one or more partners wanting out. The scheduling was that each partner had the ship for a rotating week (Fri - Thurs). The other partners contacted him/her if they wanted to schedule in those weeks. I don't remember any scheduling conflicts or disagreements we didn't resolve easily. I made several good friends in those arrangements.

The one time where I lost a friend came when I backed out of a potential partnership due to family problems.

I've owned 3 airplanes by myself (including my current T-Craft) . Two when I flew very frequently and could charge off a lot of flying to work. I'd like to have one or two partners currently to split the fixed costs and maintenance chores, but couldn't find one locally.

Yes, I agree it is better to have a formal written arrangement -- I've been lucky so far.

[ClipWing_T]

Re: Partnerships or whatever


I am in patrnership on a Breezy with my brother-in-law and I have
flown it 3 hrs since the Fall and he has flown it over 30 and he said
our annual is due in June and I will have my HALF ! ! ! ..................
JUST BE NICE AND FIRM AND MAKE THEM PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE !
AND DON"T GET INTO A KINFOLK DEAL EVER ! !

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Partnerships or whatever

What seems fare to me is all calender costs should be split evenly, all hourly costs should be split in a ratio based on hours flown. Examples of calendar items would be hangar rent, ADs and annuals which would all be split evenly (even if one person- or ALL- didn't fly at all). Damage insurance deductible would be paid by the person who done it. Fuel, wear out repairs, servicing and anything that "costs" based on use should be split up based on a ratio of usage hours by the partners.
I made a spreadsheet years ago to do this before I decided I wanted my OWN plane and didn't want to share (really, my wife didn't like the idea of a partnership, and I didn't want to fight her on it. Got me my OWN planes so it doesn't bother me!)
Don't forget to put in a percentage every year (month) towards the eventual major expenses, like to amortize the cost of engine overhauls based on hours flown! You will need to add a Hobbs clock that records time any time the engine runs to avoid "hours flown" disagreements. Get a CLOCK Hobbs, not one on the tach. Tach Hobbs count engine rotations and turn different speeds at different RPMs (although I guess that might be a good measure too!)
Hank

[O.Taylor]

Re: Partnerships or whatever

Let's see, what did my dad tell me long ago???, Do do a partnership on 3 things, a house, an airplane, a wife. Also, there is one ship that won't fly:


a partnership. O.T.

[O.Taylor]

Re: Partnerships or whatever

Me and my spelling, not a do do, it should be DON't DO

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Partnerships or whatever

It's all in who you partner with. I am partners with a woman (my wife), we share the house and my planes. Like any partnership it's ALL in your choice of partners. I've had this one for 33 years and wouldn't trade for anything(it's rare, I'm lucky and I know it).
Hank (check your partner out carefully before you sign, in all three cases!)

[N95334]

Re: Partnerships or whatever

Just one more vote for the YES to partners. But it is very true, who is the partner(s) make all the difference. I have been lucky because the people I have had partnerships with in airplanes in have all been very honest and giving people. Also I had known them for years prior to the partnership and we all knew each others flying habits and safety record.

[Pearson]

Re: Partnerships or whatever

Get a prepurchase inspection and a title search, just like you would if you were buying the aircraft soley for yourself from a total stranger. Use that as a negotiating tool on the price.

And as several have already said, "Get it in writing". AOPA has a package dealing with partnerships. But basically get every contingincy spelled out in writing, including what you have to do to get out of the partnership.

[fearofpavement]

Re: Partnerships or whatever

Get a prepurchase inspection and a title search, just like you would if you were buying the aircraft soley for yourself from a total stranger. Use that as a negotiating tool on the price.

And as several have already said, "Get it in writing". AOPA has a package dealing with partnerships. But basically get every contingincy spelled out in writing, including what you have to do to get out of the partnership.

Although the price of T-crafts have been fairly stable over the years keep in your consideration of factors for getting out of a partnership the basis of your equity in the aircraft. If the plane greatly appreciates (or depreciates)while you own it how much is your share when you or he leaves? Half the market value? half of your actual investment? Anyone who has ever handled an estate can tell you when it comes to "money" rational thinking tends to go out the window. I think that unless I expected it to be a very long partnership I would try to arrange something based more on a per hour of use rate than buying into the equity of the plane. A couple of single guys or gals buying a home together can create the same type of dilemas. For instance, have you thought about the scenario where one of the partners needs to move to a different locale and both of you desire to keep the plane? Aircraft partnership is an arrangement that can work but is fraught with pitfalls. On a low end aircraft like the Taylorcraft the perceived benefits may not equal the potential for things going wrong. Good luck!