quickest/safest way down if on fire

[N74DV]

a fire erupts firewall forward and for whatever reason you are unable to stop it (fuel cutoff does nothing.. bad valve, etc.) What's the quickest way to descend rapidly yet without fueling the flames with more O2?

spin it? dive it at Vne? (to create an excessively lean mixture), very aggressive slip?

opinions?

[Harbi]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

DJ,

Probably the scariest thing a pilot could face!!! It seems to me the standard procedure is to dive the aircraft to make a mixture to rich for the fire to burn. Side slip to keep the flames away from the cabin and get on the ground asap.
I just watched the movie FLY BOYS and in that they carried a pistol so if they caught on fire they could burn with the plane or take the so called easy way "out". Not sure about the historical accuracy of that,but...

Wade

[Sloanlow]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/airplane_handbook/media/faa-h-8083-3a-7of7.pdf

Why are you asking this question? are you on fire?

Go to your panel, carb heat, close throttle, full lean, fuel shut off, turn off fuel pumps, leave mags on for the moment scan instruments to try to locate damage, example no oil pressure then maybe oil fire, did the engine starve for fuel before the problem occurred? if so then maybe broken fuel line, turn off mags. still got a fire? what color is the smoke, black is oil, orange and yellow iis fuel. initiate rapid decent, turn into the wind. unless you are doing touch and goes you best be looking for a place to land and you need to be going into the wind for your emergency landing you will not have time to set up an approach so decide now where you are going to land. determine the color of the smoke.......read on, good luck

IN-FLIGHT FIRE
Afire in flight demands immediate and decisive action.
The pilot therefore must be familiar with the procedures
outlined to meet this emergency contained in the
AFM/POH for the particular airplane. For the purposes
of this handbook, in-flight fires are classified as: in flight
engine fires, electrical fires, and cabin fires.

ENGINE FIRE
An in-flight engine compartment fire is usually caused
by a failure that allows a flammable substance such as
fuel, oil or hydraulic fluid to come in contact with a hot
surface. This may be caused by a mechanical failure of
the engine itself, an engine-driven accessory, a
defective induction or exhaust system, or a broken
line. Engine compartment fires may also result from
maintenance errors, such as improperly installed/fastened
lines and/or fittings resulting in leaks.
Engine compartment fires can be indicated by smoke
and/or flames coming from the engine cowling area.
They can also be indicated by discoloration, bubbling,
and/or melting of the engine cowling skin in cases
where flames and/or smoke is not visible to the pilot.
By the time a pilot becomes aware of an in-flight
engine compartment fire, it usually is well developed.
Unless the airplane manufacturer directs otherwise in
the AFM/POH, the first step on discovering a fire
should be to shut off the fuel supply to the engine by
placing the mixture control in the idle cut off position
and the fuel selector shutoff valve to the OFF position.
The ignition switch should be left ON in order to use
up the fuel that remains in the fuel lines and components
between the fuel selector/shutoff valve and
the engine. This procedure may starve the engine
compartment of fuel and cause the fire to die naturally.
If the flames are snuffed out, no attempt should be
made to restart the engine.
If the engine compartment fire is oil-fed, as evidenced
by thick black smoke, as opposed to a fuel-fed fire
which produces bright orange flames, the pilot should
consider stopping the propeller rotation by feathering
or other means, such as (with constant-speed propellers)
placing the pitch control lever to the minimum
r.p.m. position and raising the nose to reduce airspeed
until the propeller stops rotating. This procedure will
stop an engine-driven oil (or hydraulic) pump from
continuing to pump the flammable fluid which is
feeding the fire.
Some light airplane emergency checklists direct the
pilot to shut off the electrical master switch. However,
the pilot should consider that unless the fire is electrical
in nature, or a crash landing is imminent, deactivating
the electrical system prevents the use of panel radios
for transmitting distress messages and will also cause
air traffic control (ATC) to lose transponder returns.
Pilots of powerless single-engine airplanes are left
with no choice but to make a forced landing. Pilots of
twin-engine airplanes may elect to continue the flight
to the nearest airport. However, consideration must be
given to the possibility that a wing could be seriously
impaired and lead to structural failure. Even a brief but
intense fire could cause dangerous structural damage.
In some cases, the fire could continue to burn under
the wing (or engine cowling in the case of a singleengine
airplane) out of view of the pilot. Engine
compartment fires which appear to have been
extinguished have been known to rekindle with
changes in airflow pattern and airspeed.
The pilot must be familiar with the airplane’s emergency
descent procedures. The pilot must bear in mind
that:
• The airplane may be severely structurally damaged
to the point that its ability to remain under
control could be lost at any moment.
• The airplane may still be on fire and susceptible
to explosion.
• The airplane is expendable and the only thing that
matters is the safety of those on board.

ELECTRICAL FIRES
The initial indication of an electrical fire is usually the
distinct odor of burning insulation. Once an electrical
fire is detected, the pilot should attempt to identify the
faulty circuit by checking circuit breakers, instruments,
avionics, and lights. If the faulty circuit cannot be readily
detected and isolated, and flight conditions permit,
the battery master switch and alternator/generator
switches should be turned off to remove the possible
source of the fire. However, any materials which have
been ignited may continue to burn.
Figure 16-6. Emergency descent.
Ch 16.qxd 5/7/04 10:30 AM Page 16-7
16-8
If electrical power is absolutely essential for the flight,
an attempt may be made to identify and isolate the
faulty circuit by:
1. Turning the electrical master switch OFF.
2. Turning all individual electrical switches OFF.
3. Turning the master switch back ON.
4. Selecting electrical switches that were ON before
the fire indication one at a time, permitting a short
time lapse after each switch is turned on to check
for signs of odor, smoke, or sparks.
This procedure, however, has the effect of recreating
the original problem. The most prudent course of
action is to land as soon as possible.
CABIN FIRE
Cabin fires generally result from one of three sources:
(1) careless smoking on the part of the pilot and/or
passengers; (2) electrical system malfunctions; (3)
heating system malfunctions. A fire in the cabin presents
the pilot with two immediate demands: attacking
the fire, and getting the airplane safely on the ground
as quickly as possible. A fire or smoke in the cabin
should be controlled by identifying and shutting down
the faulty system. In many cases, smoke may be
removed from the cabin by opening the cabin air vents.
This should be done only after the fire extinguisher (if
available) is used. Then the cabin air control can be
opened to purge the cabin of both smoke and fumes. If
smoke increases in intensity when the cabin air vents
are opened, they should be immediately closed. This
indicates a possible fire in the heating system, nose
compartment baggage area (if so equipped), or that the
increase in airflow is feeding the fire.
On pressurized airplanes, the pressurization air system
will remove smoke from the cabin; however, if the
smoke is intense, it may be necessary to either depressurize
at altitude, if oxygen is available for all
occupants, or execute an emergency descent.
In unpressurized single-engine and light twin-engine
airplanes, the pilot can attempt to expel the smoke
from the cabin by opening the foul weather windows.
These windows should be closed immediately if the
fire becomes more intense. If the smoke is severe, the
passengers and crew should use oxygen masks if available,
and the pilot should initiate an immediate
descent. The pilot should also be aware that on some
airplanes, lowering the landing gear and/or wing flaps
can aggravate a cabin smoke problem.

[tim]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

damm did ur hands hurt after all that ?? lol nice info thanks

[midniteflyer52]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

My two cents,
I've seen plenty of pics of vintage planes taken when they were new. Most of the pilots in those shots were wearing chutes. Why? Private pilot test regs back then required wearing a chute. Again, why? Now, our planes are sixty years older. Today, almost no one that I know of wears one except aerobatic pilots or a jump plane pilot. Every time I see a military pilot climbing into or out of a plane he is wearing a chute. Personally, I own one and intend on wearing it, especially on cross country flights. They are made to save lives. The airplane is secondary. I'm sorry, but if my plane were to catch fire with me in it while in the air, I'll pull the throttle, kill the mags, and hit the silk! Many pilots have had to do this over the years to live and fly another day. Like seat belts, it's a safety device. First world war pilots however considered it cowardly to use one, they would rather have put a bullet into their heads than to go over the side in a chute. Such a waste. Again, my two cents. If I were concerned enough to post a question like this I would wear a parachute whenever I flew, no stigma attached, popular opinion be damned, it's your life. If something should go horribly wrong then you know at least you've got a way out. Fly safely my friends and feel safe too.
Thanks,
Glen Brodeur
TF #42

[cpirrmann]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

If I carried a chute in my Tcraft, ther'es only one place I could put it, and I won't for the same reason I won't wear thong underwear, I don't want anything in there. Since I've got a non-electric, stock BC-12D, Harbi's approach is best application...side slip and keep those flames away fromt he cockpit and FUEL TANK. Also don't take Flyboys for gospel on too much stuff. In WWI, they used another option. Some would jump and take their chances, esp. if over water.

As they say, the only time you've got too much fuel is when you're on fire.

[Robert Lees]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

First world war pilots however considered it cowardly to use one

I think you'll find that it was their bosses who though that.

If you don't have jettisonable doors in your Tcraft, the parachute is just extra ballast.

[Dick Huish]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

Another reason to get an L-2. The door is made to be released in an emergency. Dick

[mulwyk]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

Flyboys?! HA! Check out the scene where the heros guns jam and the bad guy in the black triplane pulls along side and gives him the old finger across the throat. What happens? Our hero pulls out a revolver and shoots the villain!

Now really, both these guys are in twitchy, high performance, stability-be-damned fighter planes at full throttle, both presumably shaking and vibrating like overloaded washing machines. The hero grabs one of those horrid old Colt (?) revolvers, pokes his hand out in the slipstream, and at a range of 50 yards, POW!, shoots the other guy right in the eye!

[NC36061]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

I'd have to see it again to be sure, but I think it was a Webley .455.....

[Sloanlow]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

"it could happen"

[DannyDot]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

When I flew the F-4E for the Air Force I had this nice little handle between my legs to take care of situations like aircraft on fire

Danny Deger

[DannyDot]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

I think I would spin the plane. The relative wind of a spin should help blow the fire to the side and the sink rate is very high.

Danny Deger

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

These are great solutions, or options... thanks to everybody for the ideas. When I was in the Airforce
I saw a rocket coming back to earth on a parachute. The whole thing caught on fire and burned up in literally, 3 seconds. Parachute and all "blam"... so let me add another idea.
Don't catch on fire in the first place. Keep your engine compartment clean, your fuel and oil hoses fresh, and your gas tanks unblemished. Just another option.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[Acroeric]

Re: quickest/safest way down if on fire

Tail Slide? ;-)