Opinions on this plane please

[DannyDot]

I have found a recently restored BC-12D for $28K. I have only been looking for a couple of weeks, so don't know much on current prices. I would appreciate any opinions on this airplane (see link below) and the going prices for T-crafts. I bought a good BC-12D for $7.5K in 1986. I don't think I am going to find one for this price in 2006 :-)

Also, if anyone knows a good mechanic in the Mobile AL area that knows T-crafts, please let me know. I might need someone to do a prebuy inspection for me.

The plane is at the following link.

http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=148694&ReturnURL=%2FTaildragger%2C%2520Taylorcraft%2520Classifieds.html&PHPSESSID=10f9cfd7361072d8b8

Danny Deger

[Guest]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

I have found a recently restored BC-12D for $28K. I have only been looking for a couple of weeks, so don't know much on current prices. I would appreciate any opinions on this airplane (see link below) and the going prices for T-crafts. I bought a good BC-12D for $7.5K in 1986. I don't think I am going to find one for this price in 2006 :-)

Also, if anyone knows a good mechanic in the Mobile AL area that knows T-crafts, please let me know. I might need someone to do a prebuy inspection for me.

The plane is at the following link.

http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=148694&ReturnURL=%2FTaildragger%2C%2520Taylorcraft%2520Classifieds.html&PHPSESSID=10f9cfd7361072d8b8

Danny Deger

Too much,

Look at mine on ebay, item # 300069936132 and make an offer for a lot less that what you are looking at.

Mine is a "make offer sale". I do not expect to get the buy it now price and ebay will not let me lower it.

I'd like to getn in the $18,600 to $19,600 range.

Dave.

[Brady]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

Danny,

Check your private messages.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

There has recently been an 85 horse Taylorcraft advertised on THIS forum for considerably less than the 65 HP airplane on Barnstormers.

Barnstormers has unfortunately fallen victim to the "Trade-a-Plane Syndrome", where people throw out ridiculous asking prices as a fishing expedition to see what they can catch.

IMHO do not be the fish that bites at that one.

If you spend anything more than about 16,000 on a 65 horsepower Taylorcraft it better be very very nice. Spend more than 19 or 20 on an 85 horse Taylorcraft and it also better be pretty nice.

$28,000 should buy you an in-annual, nothing wrong with it, mid time engine, not too ugly 118 horsepower F-21B Taylorcraft, not a BC-12D.

[Pearson]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

Danny,

I would like to add my two cents worth here on this subject. I have stated before on this forum that Taylorcraft prices vary in different parts of the country.

From what you have told me and what I can see in the pictures, this looks like a very nice airplane. Regardless of what part of the country it is in, 28K does seem a little on the high side. Bill Berle is right about being able to get more airplane for this amount of money. However, it will not be recently restored with all this new stuff listed in this ad.

It really comes down to what your priorities are. If peace of mind in knowing that everything is new or rebuilt is more important than higher performance, then go for it. Hopefully you could negotiate at least a little bit lower price!

[Guest]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

I seemed to have always thought or noticed that the price of a t-craft and other old tail draggers has always been about the sameas the price of new family car?

Anyone else notice that?

Seems like since the 60's that has been how I saw it.

Dave

[Guest]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

There has recently been an 85 horse Taylorcraft advertised on THIS forum for considerably less than the 65 HP airplane on Barnstormers.

Barnstormers has unfortunately fallen victim to the "Trade-a-Plane Syndrome", where people throw out ridiculous asking prices as a fishing expedition to see what they can catch.

IMHO do not be the fish that bites at that one.

If you spend anything more than about 16,000 on a 65 horsepower Taylorcraft it better be very very nice. Spend more than 19 or 20 on an 85 horse Taylorcraft and it also better be pretty nice.

$28,000 should buy you an in-annual, nothing wrong with it, mid time engine, not too ugly 118 horsepower F-21B Taylorcraft, not a BC-12D.

Hi Bill, what did you pay for yours?

There was prior discussion months ago when I was trying to assess the value of mine and you had mentioned one for $28k.

Dave

[alwaysoar]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

That plane was most likely an EAA club project. I would want to make sure it was all documented (i.e. tags for the overhaul, etc.), kind of cylinders (Millenium, overhauled, or?), and condition of other parts, are there 337's, have you sent for the FAA CD history? If this is truly a properly restored by-the-book, pristine airplane, make an offer. There is a beautiful BC-12D on our field (not mine, I'm sorry to say), with so many issues that the IA is afraid to get into it because of the cost of updating the records alone. The plane was never weighed following recover in 2003 and has not been annualed for four years, the tie strut SB hasn't been done, for example. "Restored" is a highly subjective term! Caveat emptor.

alwaysoar@BTV VT
TF 527

[DannyDot]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

That plane was most likely an EAA club project. I would want to make sure it was all documented (i.e. tags for the overhaul, etc.), kind of cylinders (Millenium, overhauled, or?), and condition of other parts, are there 337's, have you sent for the FAA CD history? If this is truly a properly restored by-the-book, pristine airplane, make an offer. There is a beautiful BC-12D on our field (not mine, I'm sorry to say), with so many issues that the IA is afraid to get into it because of the cost of updating the records alone. The plane was never weighed following recover in 2003 and has not been annualed for four years, the tie strut SB hasn't been done, for example. "Restored" is a highly subjective term! Caveat emptor.

alwaysoar@BTV VT
TF 527

Thanks for the input. Does anyone on this forum perform the work of looking at the paperwork trail on a plane, e.g. all AD complied with, and asking all of the right questions on what was done during the restoration and engine overhaul? I would think this could be done "from afar" with a telephone and a fax. I would be glad to pay a resonable fee for this service.

I see "Alwaysoar" has a Prebuy book for $15. I think I will get it.

Danny Deger

What is the FAA CD history? I have never heard of it.

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

He probably has that or more in it with everything new he claims, but there is a lot of nit picky things wrong with it for me to pay that much for a 65hp taylorcraft.

Mike

[Pearson]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

Danny,

Go to;

http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/copies_aircraft_records/

For ten bucks (it used to be $5) you get a CD with all of the 337s & STC ever submitted for that aircraft.

[alwaysoar]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

You also get the ownership history, a copy of the A/C limitations. It is a bargain at $10.00. There are only a few AD's.

[dennispip]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

From past posts on this site, a recover job with new paint alone runs in the 10K range. So take your average '46 BC12 D and hire someone qualified to strip off all the old fabric and repair/replace all the corroded tubing and struts and carefully inspect or preferably replace the 60 year old wooden spars, then be sure all the instruments are working and overhaul the engine. Then put in a new interior and sling. Replace the bungees and make certain the tires and tailwheel and trim mechanism is in good shape. Don't forget to check everything for non-approved repairs or non-approved parts that may have accumulated over the past 60 years and remove and replace all of that and then you have a nice 46 Taylorcraft. What would that cost and then be worth?

I would predict that this would cost way beyond what kind of prices this thread has suggested. I also think that those who own these few fine aircraft that are truly in great shape should rethink what the value of their planes really might be. The days of buying a good, safe, aircraft for 16-18K are rapidly going to come to an end. Most of those bargain planes are going to need attention and $$$$ put in them to remain safe/airworthy. Those not receiving the proper attention will soon become unsafe and gone leaving a significantly reduced number of nice planes worth 30K to 40K. Supply and demand. I think that will still be a deal when you look at what else is out there in the way of a certificated airworthy airplane that is comparable to the Taylorcraft.

I do happen to own a very nice 1986 F21 B that has 787 TT and is in perfect shape, has a full electrical system and starter, and it is for sale. But it is not available for 28K as suggested by Bill. 21Bs, with their 118HP Lycoming O-235 2400 Hr TBO engine, have very good short field and climb performance and a 200# baggage compartment. Gross Weight is 1750#. They share the Taylorcraft airframe to be sure, but are different from the BC12Ds that many on this site fly. You should fly one if you ever get the chance. The BC12 D was/can be a great plane and it is what it is just like all other aircraft. My first flight experience came back in 1956-1970 in my dad's BC12 D and that is why I have owned my Taylorcraft for the past 4 years. It has been a wonderful and nostalgic experience and I am grateful for the 130 hours of time I have been able to log in 4418V.

Aircraft are only worth what the market will pay for sure. But I don't know how any of us can expect to purchase a really nice quality plane for half of the sum it takes to get it in that condition unless the supply is greater than the demand. There are plenty of guys who have gone through this restoration process who visit this website who I hope will comment on what it really takes in dollars spent to do it right. For those legal to do their own work, please add in the cost of your own time (at true market value) which is only fair for determining future sale prices.

So I don't think the price that was quoted for the restored BC12 D is bad at all if it was a good job. 28K is a deal if it is a good job. I hope this commentary is not received adversely. It is my opinion and belief that I am expressing. If owners maintain this fleet properly, the prices just have to go up to realistic values.

[Grant S. Bailey]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

I'd be embarrased to tell everyone what I've got invested in my rebuild project . . . so I won't.

[Pearson]

Re: Opinions on this plane please

It's OK Grant you are not alone.