Aft CG landings

[jCandlish]

The empty weight of my plane is at the aft limit of the allowable range and the baggage sling is placarded at 30lbs. Ha ha.

The wing is still flying well after the tailwheel is rolling on landing.

What is the best technique to avoid hops with this loading?

Thanks
jCandlish
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[stormman]

Re: Aft CG landings

A fat guy in the front ( no not Forrest) or land slower

[Pearson]

Re: Aft CG landings

JCandlish

Have you ever experienced the joy of a nice wheel landing?

Is there anything at the rear of your plane that might be heavier than it is supposed to be? Or is there something heavy missing near the front? I know these sound like stupid questions. But sometimes we miss the obvious.

[VictorBravo]

Re: Aft CG landings

The empty weight of my plane is at the aft limit of the allowable range
.

Do you mean that the plane is t the aft limit of the EMPTY weight CG, or that your plane is aft of the aft CG flight limit? I know that there is a range for the empty weight that keeps you within bounds with two normal people, but I'm not sure if having the empty weight CG at the aft limit automatically meansx that the airplane with people in it is flying at an aft CG position.

My reasoning is that the pilot and passenger weight is slightly FORWARD of the normal balance point. So if you had a heavy pilot or 2 people o n board, even with an aft EMPTY CG you could still be flying within the allowable range.

A very light pilot and a full baggage sling might put you closer to the aft limit.

All that being said, I SUSPECT that you'd have to have a very very far aft flight CG to cause the wing to be flying while the tail is rolling on the ground. Assuming that you are even withiin 5-8% of the aft CG, I'd doubt that you could have the plane really trying to swap ends like that... too much airspeed on landing seems to be the most likely suspect.

Can you fly the airplane under reasonable control turning final approach at say 55-60 mph? If you CAN, then I seriously doubt that your CG is so far aft that it will cause the tail to come down like that.

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: Aft CG landings

Tribe,
I picked up the tail of John's plane when he flew in here and it feel heavier to both me and my friend Jim.. When we all went to T-27 for John to photograph "Manu Sina", John said that my tail felt lighter than his. Jim and I think that something in John's tail is heavier than it should be. He says that the battery is not that far back. Sabrina

[VictorBravo]

Re: Aft CG landings

Water in the tubes... rust and debris in the tubes... bird's nests soaked in moisture someplace in the tail... solid heavy tailwheel tire...ten coats of paint on the fuselage...heavier than appropriate fabric and the resulting thicker coating buildup... lots of things could be the culprit. The Taylorcraft has a very long tail moment arm, so it would take LESS of a bird's nest or excess weight in the tail to have this effect than some other aircraft.

IMHO, since we're talking about tail heaviness that has been shown to affect the way the airplane flies, this should be looked at as a possible safety issue.

One very important test would be to record the pitch trim position for level flight at cruise speed and other speeds. If the airplane needs to be trimmed with a lot of nose-down force, somebody's trying to tell you something and perhaps you should be listening harder.

If this particular airplane's tail is noticeably harder to lift than other T-crafts, that also means something that should be paid attention to.

[stormman]

Re: Aft CG landings

Come on guys don't keep us in supense , Look in the back and weigh the tailwheel using a bathroom scale. Anyone out there with their tailwheel weight?

[flyguy]

Re: Aft CG landings

That would be an interesting comparison that would be easy for many of us to do. Everyone who wishes to could weigh their tails (lol) and see what kind of variation we get.
John, why is your battery mounted "far back" at all? I have never seen one mounted anywhere but on the floor in front of seat.
Darryl

[jCandlish]

Re: Aft CG landings

My empty weight CG is 19" back which puts it at the aft limit for normal loading according to the TCDS. My tailwheel weighs 75 lbs.

My cross country loading includes lots of stuff in the baggage sling that is placarded at 30lbs max.

I've readusted the loading so that as much of the heavier items as possible are forward of the bungie tower, and I make filling the main tank a part of my pre-approach proceedure.

Still I've had an incident at Boulder City, NV where a crosswind gust lifted the windward wing. I got on the throttle at the begining of the second ground loop oscillation and got her lined up and the mains flying, but I neatly took out a marker light with the tailwheel. Dead center. Two inches to either side and I'd have been in the brace wires and a world of hurt!

There seems to be particularly gusty or puffy conditions out here, especially mid-afternoon when the runways are as sticky as fly paper. That and the variations of the density altitudes really mix up the aproach ground speed.

Lots to learn to keep it safe.

cheers
jCandlish
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[VictorBravo]

Re: Aft CG landings

Landing gear wheel alignment... you may have toe-out, or you may have something loose that allows the wheels to move back and forth when there is load on them.

A lot of guys sya there should be toe-out on a taildragger so a Xwind landing does not try to pull the wheel inboard, but they forget that this makes the plane instable. IMHO the toe setting should be zero.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Aft CG landings

Just for interest, my 1946 BC12D tail weight was 63.5 pounds before I restored it.
After rebuild, it is now 58 lbs.

My 1941 BC is 50 lbs.

The other two 1946 BC12D's at my field are 65 lbs and 62 lbs respectively.

(All weighed level, zero fuel, to get empty weight cg).

The spreadsheet below shows the empty weights & tail weights of our four Taylorcraft.



The main reason for the differences in weights of the 1946 models is the fabric. IH is covered in Razorback, and the heavy fiberglass has a larger impact at the tail end. NR is so full of goodies in the cabin that the empty weight is the highest, but the weight is largely on the mains, not the tail.

My Taylorcraft c.g. template here