From The Factory 2

[hoomanb]

Re: From The Factory 2

Personal attacks like this will not be allowed.

You have 12 hours to update your User profie info with your real name and contact info, or I will as you suggest delete your post, your account and ban your IP address.

If you say you have posted messages like this in the past and generated a similar reaction then you are simply not welcome here.

I have posted my real name. I live in NC like I have put in my profile. And I used my real email. And if personal attacks are not allowed, oh ,wait, you can't ban Forrest. He attacked our company twice in this thread. All I am doing is stating fact - I did not call anyone a name, insult anyone, or the such.

[taylorcraftbc65]

Re: From The Factory 2

THANK YOU BOB!! We don't need that kind of mudslinging on this site. Brie

[alwaysoar]

Re: From The Factory 2

Here we go again! Anybody want to referee?

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: From The Factory 2

There are certain issues which can be resloved on this forum board. There are other issues which are too complex, personal, or delicate... which can not be resolved here. For those issues phone calls, letters, private messages on the email board, or straight emails to the participants address... will do nicely. Knowing the difference, which appropriate one to use, is good.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[birdlegs]

Re: From The Factory 2/referee

I think the two best judges would have to be Father time, and Mother nature.
Father time chisels away at bad practice
Mother nature warns us about the consequence

[VictorBravo]

Re: From The Factory 2

There are a couple of things that jumped out at me in this matter.

I truly don't know who HoomanB is or what part he/she has played in this soap opera. not posting a real name and stating what part you play(ed) in all this causes an immediate lack of credibility.

I also didn't see any really out-of-line personal attacks in Hooman's post. I saw poor taste, insinuations without backup info, and some bad blood on his part... but there was NO really outrageous libel. Nobody said "he is a criminal... he is a thief... he hurt someone" type of things. Nobody said "I'm gonna barbecue your ass in molasses!" to quote Sheriff Buford T. Justice. With all sincere respects to Bob O., he may have rattled his saber and raised his axe a little too quickly.

Last but certainly not least, I think Forrest is more than qualified to take care of himself, and in fact may not actually need anyone to shield him (or us) from a few mild pointed remarks.

I'd hate to be in a situation where my disagreeing with someone else on the forum (or even my accusing someone of wrongdoing if it happened) is censored without a really good reason.

[dewhitaker]

Re: From The Factory 2

Taylorcraft F21B
A Good Bet
N4418Y began life as a gambler
BY ALTON K. MARSH (From AOPA Pilot, May 1997.)

Taylorcraft serial number 1521, an F21B tailwheel model, began life in the fast lane in 1988, hanging from the ceiling of the Stardust Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas. Pull a handle, win an airplane.

Taylorcraft sold it to the casino for $36,463. Taylorcraft owner George Ruckle needed to raise money to save his struggling company. But the sale of N4418Y and other discounted aircraft failed to rescue the company from bankruptcy proceedings, leading to a court-ordered sale of the entire company in 1989. It struggled on under new owners and produced new models of Taylorcraft as recently as 1994.

Both N4418Y and the company have bounced from one owner to the next over the past few years. The airplane was won at the casino by a nonpilot who sold it immediately. The aircraft is up for sale again by its present owner, Gary Milano of Frederick, Maryland. And the parent company — now just a bunch of type certificates in a drawer and locked hangars full of tooling and parts in Lock Haven, Pennsylvania — was acquired late last year by Airborne Marketing in Greensboro, North Carolina.

The newest iteration of Taylorcraft is now controlled by Dave Gordon, owner of a graphics company; Lee Booth, who has previous experience in the aviation industry; and Hooman Bahrani, a young flight instructor from Iran, who will be the company's chief pilot. Booth said that the company will be named BG (for Booth/Bahrani and Gordon) Taylorcraft Aerospace and do business as Taylorcraft. The plan is to make parts and eventually aircraft. Airborne Marketing has an office in one corner of a former air freight building at Greensboro's Piedmont Triad International Airport.

[NY86]

Re: From The Factory 2

I'm confused. If they rescued the company, how come we're even having this conversation?

[VictorBravo]

Re: From The Factory 2

OK, thanks. NOW I can post a good example of an inappropriate personal attack, for ecucational purposes only:

I don't know which is more disturbing; an Iranian in post-9/11 America with the power to give flight instruction, or anyone from anywhere in the Middle East having a hand in the ownership of Taylorcraft.

[hoomanb]

Re: From The Factory 2

Hooman is my first name. I was born in North Carolina and have lived there all my life. The part I played was being an owner of Taylorcraft.

Exactly why are you so angry?

[VictorBravo]

Re: From The Factory 2

Note to readers: my reply to Hooman is off topic and no longer directly related to Taylorcraft. Un-interested partises may choose to not waste their time reading it, and please accept my apologies.

"Angry" is not as accurate as "wary". I was raised to be respectful and open to cultures and values that differed from the most common values and culture of typical Americans. My family was at one time on the very forefront of liberal, progressive, Democratic politics. In the old days, America opened its doors to welcome other cultures. Those cultures responded by respecting the American culture and values (while not forgetting their own previous culture). But they learned our language and accepted our values and our lifestyle. People came to America (or were raised in America) because where they came from was not as good... and they understood that simple fact

Somewhere a long the way, people with certain cultures and value systems decided that they would not respect the American way of life, and looked at America as a place where they could use our inherent fairness and trust against us, to enrich themselves at the expense of all those gullible and trusting white-bread square Americans. If you are not aware of the existence of this view of America by many many Middle Eastern people, the fact remains that many Americans are painfully aware of it.

I've seen first hand what the differences are between Middle East culture and American culture. Worse, I've seen first hand how the Middle Eastern culture views America... as a million rich gullible idiots who can be sold a bill of goods over and over... and a governmental system that can be manipulated to no end.

As a former salesperson who went into people's homes to sell home improvement work for three or four different companies, I can tell you with no doubt how people from different cultures do business.

Anyone who has ever done business with individuals or businesspeople from many different cultures can tell you that the differences are very clear. In fact, I will guess that most businesspeople can tell you that they will predict, with remarkable accuracy, the outcome of a business dealing in advance, as soon as they know what type of culture their customer is from. That is a sad, disturbing, but true fact of life.

And so I must say, with SINCERE regret and sadness, that if someone who is from (or raised in) the culture and lifestyle of the Middle East is involved with the Taylorcraft company on any ownership or management level..... it is highly probable that there will be MORE problems, more financial questions, more dishonesty, more bankruptcy, more shady business dealings, more credibility problems, more tax write-off scams, more unsafe or illegal airplane parts, and more failures due to lack of integrity than if there were nobody from the Middle East culture involved. Again, this is unfortunate... but it is the same as the laws of physics; the laws of physics don't care whether they are unpleasant or disturbing to accept.

As for my other comment, that is personal. My ability to fly my own airplane, which is my lifelong dream and the reason I get up in the morning, has been damaged and threatened by the actions of Middle Eastern religious extremists. It is known that those extremists have built a network here in America of financial supporters, participants, and others who are in support of their goals.

Although unpleasant and in conflict with my general beliefs about fairness, the fact remains that anyone with cultural or religious ties to nations or organizations who wish to destroy America are in a position that is MORE subject to suspicion than people who do not have ties to enemies of this country. Add to this the fact that these enemies have already used aviation and flight instruction to harm America. Add to this that the leadership of the country of Iran (and some percentage of the people of Iran, and some percentagae of Americans of Iranian descent) is currently positioning itself to destroy America at every opportunity, and is publically calling on anyone within its sphere of influence to take all measures to destroy America.

Again it is SAD and DISTURBING, but it is also a completely valid argument for being more wary and distrustful of people of Iranian descent than people of Irish descent.

[Ron Greene]

Re: From The Factory 2

I detected no anger, only a statement about world events. As an American also born in North Carolina I fully understood Bill's educational response.

We are members of this forum because of our love of an aircraft type, if the business owners who hold the TC's cared as much about the aircraft as we do they would quit the stupid in-fighting and produce parts that owners of this type aircraft have demonstrated a need for. With the number of LSA's and other light aircraft already on the market I do not think anyone will ever get rich nor profit from the manufacture of a vintage or revamped Taylorcraft. However a producer of parts to maintain the aging fleet could maintain a profitable business. The occupation of a parts manufacturer is not as glorious as an aircraft manufacturer and "test pilot" but is what is needed.

Demonstrated need for parts not planes should drive your business model, and personal attacks on this forum are attacks against your future base of customers, not very smart.

Ron Greene

[fearofpavement]

Re: From The Factory 2

Ok guys and gals, I think we have gone down this trail far enough. There are T-crafts to fly and fix and restore. There are technical difficulties that need to be resolved and this is a great forum for the nuts and bolts of T-crafts. The political, while it is nice to vent, could probably be better done in a different venue. I don't think that there are currently any Iranian ties to T-craft as this is a situation from the last century. So back to the hangar!
my two cents...

[Forrest Barber]

Re: From The Factory 2

I never had a problem with Hooman if this is indeed him, I have NEVER produced parts from any "drawings" from the Smithsonian those were micro films and about everybody has them. The 'late" Darrell Romick is alive and well , visits us quite a bit too! You would think if this person knew him , they would spell his name correctly. thanks for handling the situation Bob , but I had to respond to this wild accusation. Now you can close again. thanks Forrest