From The Factory 2

[dmcneil]

Re: From The Factory 2

Hi All,

There's a new story in the Brownsville Herald this morning regarding the city, the airport and Taylorcraft-Ingram. What a mess...

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/ts_comments.php?id=72896_0_10_0_C

Dan

[CraigH]

Re: From The Factory 2

Yeah, I especially liked this quote:

Asked what will happen if he doesn’t get the incentive money, Ingram replied, “That’s crazy to go down that road. There is no indication we’re not going to get (money).”

On the contrary, BEDC President Jason Hilts said he would not recommend incentive payment to the company at Thursday’s meeting.


Sounds like Harry's staying true to form till the bitter end.

[mhorowit]

What would you ask the factory to produce?

Assuming the factory is limited to producing parts and we were able to inject our opinion into the process, what would you recommend they stockpile?

The struts would get my vote as the first thing to stockpile, followed by landing gear (for the 12D).

You got ideas? - Mike

Rather than attempting to acquire some portion of the ownership of the factory, perhaps we could buy/store hard to get parts?

[fearofpavement]

Re: From The Factory 2

To me the things that would be important to have the factory manufacture are those items that are difficult to manufacture in the field. As Mike stated, struts and gear would fall in that category as well as parts with compound curved surfaces such as lower cowlings etc., engine mounts, ribs, and so forth. I realize that there are a variety of skill levels here on the forum and some of ya'll can make about anything and others only change bolts. Some replacement parts are better made in the jigs and fixtures the originals were built in.

The other thing the factory would do well to produce would be the items that are frequently replaced even if they are not that complex. Although some parts may be readily field fabricated, it may be more expedient for those that don't have an excess of time to purchase these parts. If parts are already available from aftermarket vendors, don't bother with those. Make the things that are going to sell either because they are frequently needed or because they are "must haves" in case of the previous parts demise. I think (just an opinion and not based on facts) that the supply of used parts is going to continually decrease as more "basket case" aircraft are being restored and probably less parted out. The days of being able to buy a decrepit T-craft that has spent the last x years rusting away in a barn for a few hundred dollars are probably over. (yes, aren't we ALL hoping to run into that "deal of a lifetime"?) Anyway, just as the number of barn fresh model A Fords are diminishing these old aircraft are following the same trail. Thus I wish the factory to remain in business as a viable entity that can do product support for a fairly sizeable fleet of airplanes.

[VictorBravo]

Re: From The Factory 2

Unless this info is no longer accurate, wing struts have been listed as available in the Aircraft Spruce catalog, and perhaps Univair too. Engine mounts of both size are listed in the Spruce catalog. If those are available from Univair or Spruce, then why all the commotion about the struts and mounts?

The lower cowls and landing gears are on the top of everyone's list, so if anything those should be made by the factory.

Tail wires can be fabricated by a thread rolling company as owner produced parts, but they have to be rolled threads and not cut.

[fearofpavement]

Re: From The Factory 2

Unless this info is no longer accurate, wing struts have been listed as available in the Aircraft Spruce catalog, and perhaps Univair too. Engine mounts of both size are listed in the Spruce catalog. If those are available from Univair or Spruce, then why all the commotion about the struts and mounts?

The lower cowls and landing gears are on the top of everyone's list, so if anything those should be made by the factory.

Tail wires can be fabricated by a thread rolling company as owner produced parts, but they have to be rolled threads and not cut.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
For my part, I was just listing examples of things that would be difficult for an individual to produce, not having sought those items I have no idea what the availability is new or used. Sorry for the confusion

[Forrest Barber]

Re: From The Factory 2

Actually the threads are indeed "cut" threads. I am the fellow that found the company to make them back in 1990-91 for the factory in Lock Haven. The nipples too. In case any body cares , I put up the money for 400 wires had them manufactured and sent to Lock Haven, they inspected them and we split the order.
I could do it again, BUT each subsequent ownership tried to get me in trouble with the FAA for "Unapproved Parts", same as these recent attempts. I would not touch building parts with a ten foot pole.
OR maybe WE should!

[fearofpavement]

Re: From The Factory 2

re the Taylorcraft Factory, I don't know where all the present "events" are going to lead and I am not in a position nor do I have the desire to own or run a factory. I am aware however that in this type of business there is a lot of up front money expended before cash starts coming in the door. The T-craft owners would like for the factory to be in existence so that when they need parts they are available. The factory has to spend (or would have to spend) a lot of money building up this inventory that may or may not be sold at any particular time. I was wondering if there would be some way that "we" (Taylorcraft aircraft owners) could commit to buying a certain number of parts upon their manufacture to provide a sure and instant market for the producer of these parts. Not everyone needs every part but if in the group there were some of everything then trading around could take place and help keep this squadron flying.
Ie,
The factory makes parts
T-craft owners buy the parts
Factory not sitting on inventory and helps with cash flow.
Owner C has a bottom cowling that owner H needs. Owner C sells bottom cowling to H and buys landing gear assembly from owner K that he needs. etc...
So instead of owning "stock" in the company, the T-craft owners hold "stock", ie parts. Just a hairbrained idea but if I was going to be making widgets, I would have much more incentive if I knew there was a market for x amount of them NOW.

[crispy critter]

Re: From The Factory 2

re the Taylorcraft Factory, I don't know where all the present "events" are going to lead and I am not in a position nor do I have the desire to own or run a factory. I am aware however that in this type of business there is a lot of up front money expended before cash starts coming in the door. The T-craft owners would like for the factory to be in existence so that when they need parts they are available. The factory has to spend (or would have to spend) a lot of money building up this inventory that may or may not be sold at any particular time. I was wondering if there would be some way that "we" (Taylorcraft aircraft owners) could commit to buying a certain number of parts upon their manufacture to provide a sure and instant market for the producer of these parts. Not everyone needs every part but if in the group there were some of everything then trading around could take place and help keep this squadron flying.
Ie,
The factory makes parts
T-craft owners buy the parts
Factory not sitting on inventory and helps with cash flow.
Owner C has a bottom cowling that owner H needs. Owner C sells bottom cowling to H and buys landing gear assembly from owner K that he needs. etc...
So instead of owning "stock" in the company, the T-craft owners hold "stock", ie parts. Just a hairbrained idea but if I was going to be making widgets, I would have much more incentive if I knew there was a market for x amount of them NOW.

You make a very good point and it would normally be a great idea but the problem here is that so many people have already paid for parts they have not recieved. Several people have however had good luck and great service but to my understanding most have not.

[fearofpavement]

Re: From The Factory 2

Ah, good point of clarification. I was thinking of "in the future" not the present mess. In case someone else out there wants a chance to give it a go... It sounds like the place is going to be available soon. I ordered parts that I didn't receive but I hadn't paid for them yet either so I am just without the parts and haven't parted with the cash. That would be a very raw deal. Negative feedback!

[Jim Herpst]

Re: From The Factory 2

Harry sent me an order COD (my request) for the drag anti drag wires then wanted a CERTIFIED CHECK for my gettting the goods from UPS. Happily the box when opened was filled with just what I ordered..... point being there are ways around the ol pay when you get if you were dealing with a real crook you may still pay and not get... dont think Harry is any where near that catagory in my opinion.

Now back to the issue at hand FORREST: Can we prove to the FAA that the TYPE CERTIFICATE is not being supported and thus get the foundation to take control..... Of course it would take the Foundation members willing to line up with$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$to get parts MFG going parts orders in exchange ??? ANY BANKERS OUT THERE WILLING TO LET THE FOUNDATION HAVE A CRACK?

[VictorBravo]

Re: From The Factory 2

Now back to the issue at hand FORREST: Can we prove to the FAA that the TYPE CERTIFICATE is not being supported and thus get the foundation to take control.....

The problem with that is that when the FAA called the registered owner of the TC, that person could say something like "Oh yes, we are supporting the TC, and we will be offering hydroformed lower cowls next week for $49.95..." and the FAA says thank you and have a nice day.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: From The Factory 2

I am curious where the wires came from, are they documented? The worst thing we can have happen is a failure and then all wires have to be checked with an AD..... The Foundation is not set up to acquire TC's ; THAT can easily be done by a group of individuals starting a company to build Taylorcrafts again......

[hoomanb]

Re: From The Factory 2

Actually the threads are indeed "cut" threads. I am the fellow that found the company to make them back in 1990-91 for the factory in Lock Haven. The nipples too. In case any body cares , I put up the money for 400 wires had them manufactured and sent to Lock Haven, they inspected them and we split the order.
I could do it again, BUT each subsequent ownership tried to get me in trouble with the FAA for "Unapproved Parts", same as these recent attempts. I would not touch building parts with a ten foot pole.
OR maybe WE should!

Interesting, isn't it. It is not ok for Harry to make illegal parts (i.e., parts without FAA authorization). It is not ok for a random owner to make parts and sell them - but somehow, Forrest, you continue to hold this notion that it was ok for you to make and sell parts because you went to the Smithsonian, flashed your badge, and copied some drawings.

At the end of the day, you had your chance to buy the company from Dorothy, and you didn't. You even could have cut a deal with Harvey after we sold it to him, and you didn't. Why is it the rules of the FAA do not apply to you, but must apply to everyone else. It is a financial decision?

When we owned the company, we did not sell parts that were made in Lock Haven (under FAA approval) because the FAA said we could not until we had approval from them. So how come if an owner of the company, which owns the parts made under an approval, can't sell them, it is ok for a random person can go out, and cause parts to be produced in the system? Because your dad was a test pilot for Taylorcraft?


Another thing - how come you always seem to fail to mention the ONLY reason you can even talk about Taylorcraft is because we went in, the night of the Sheriff Sale in Lock Haven - and went door to door - literally - to pay off all people who were owed money and all Taylorcraft debts - to STOP the sale. And we did. And where did it get anyone - nowhere - because another owner has forced another Sheriff's sale. Do not forget, we are the ones that saved the type certificate that night. The drawings. The tooling. The parts which were made and everyone is trying to buy. The jigs. The entire Taylorcraft company. We were the ones who spent 2 long years recertifying everything -working with the late Daryl Romick, New York ACO, and Atlanta MIDO to recertify all the drawings, procedures, processes, and tooling. Despite all your phone calls and interference with the FAA, we still were successful - and all you can do is harp upon being told not to cause parts to be introduced into the system. Is it always about you, Forrest? Or does an uncertified part need to fail and a plane crash before it matters? Are your rules written in blood too?

Question is Forrest - do you have the guts to go in and do what we did? Or are you afraid it's not so easy if you have to follow the rules? Please, do us all a favor and buy the company and show us all how it's done. Stop the Sheriff sale. Buy out the debt.
Hooman


(I'll be shocked if this post isn't deleted and my IP banned - again...)

[tcraft]

Re: From The Factory 2

Personal attacks like this will not be allowed.

You have 12 hours to update your User profie info with your real name and contact info, or I will as you suggest delete your post, your account and ban your IP address.

If you say you have posted messages like this in the past and generated a similar reaction then you are simply not welcome here.