From The Factory 2

[crispy critter]

Rob,
I have always thought you do a great job as a Forum Boss,choosing what should stay and what should go.I mean no disrespect when I protest this thread being locked . It is one that certainly envolves us all in one way or another,good or bad.I think we as a group deserve the right to comment and know what is going on. I can understand why you locked it, but at the same time I think the decision may have been made a little too quickly and I really think we should have been allowed to vote on this one or at least given a warning as to how we comment before the lock was inforced. If the discussion could have been kept clean and tasteful then it should have stayed open for all to comment . I know my little comment ("the shit is about to hit the fan") and Bills longer version of his humored opinion may not have been the way to comment and for this I am truely sorry about the comment I made.My comment was not directed at anyone on either side...it was just a little humor that probably should have been kept to myself under these delicate circumstances. I can not however speak for Bill and his comment but I'm sure he had humor at heart. I just think we should all be included on a decision involving a subject of this size and importance to us all. I also think we should have been able to see what was going on from both sides. For years we have begged Harry to post his comments,plans, and ideas to us and the first time he does you block him out and tell him to contact you personally! I'm sure I speak for many on here when I say it puts a little burr under my saddle. I don't mean to dis-respect your decision,I just don't agree with it this time.
Thanks.

[VictorBravo]

Re: From The Factory 2

Although frequently guilty of being long-winded, I am not aware of anything in my post that was that inappropriate. An accusation of serious wrongdoing was made, and I for one stood up for the Foundation President and made a case that it was highly unlikely that he would do what he was accused of. The fact that I injected a little humor is up to me to do, and so long as that humor is not too far off color or I put anything genuinely off color in between the lines for interpretation, then it should be my right to make those posts without oversight IMHO.

I am absolutely certain that the subject matter of that thread is completely on-target and germane to the Taylorcraft Discussion Forum. I do not agree with it being locked out or removed. If it is the decision of the forum Administrator(s) that the thread should be moved to another category, then I will support and respect that entirely.

[crispy critter]

Re: From The Factory 2

Bill,
I know what you mean and I mean no dis-respect to you either. I just think we should leave the defending to the lawyers and try to keep this subjuct open for all to comment without defending or prosicuting anyone. Simply so we can all be informed on the out come of this case and the details as it unfolds. Harry and Forrest both know my feelings for each of them and I don't think either of them need me to voice them on this form for them to know. I just wanted this thread to stay open so all of us could be given more info as it unfolds and not be left in the dark. It's not right for one of us with the most athority to block the rest of us out and then tell the one person we have all been waiting to hear from to contact him personally to find out the scoop or explain reasoning.Either way it just don't seem right to me. I will lay off this subjust now and see where it goes.

[NY86]

Re: From The Factory 2

Reminds me of the Luscombe debacle. Everyone looses....

[Forrest Barber]

Re: From The Factory 2

I too like discussion, open, closed, what ever. Keep discussing it, I do think there is a problem with the FAA being targeted toward a supply of used Taylorcraft parts to investigate their origin. think about it! There are others out there that have a lot more than here.

[alwaysoar]

Re: From The Factory 2

This is all pretty depressing and distracting. Crispy, how do you like your old spliced lift struts now? I love mine; thought I wanted new ones.

Ed@BTV VT
TF 527

[VictorBravo]

Re: From The Factory 2

I too like discussion, open, closed, what ever. Keep discussing it, I do think there is a problem with the FAA being targeted toward a supply of used Taylorcraft parts to investigate their origin. think about it! There are others out there that have a lot more than here.

If someone makes a concerted attempt to convince the FAA to "target" an otherwise legitimate owner of used airplane parts, then they are risking a lawsuit themselves.

Involving the govrenment fraudulently or unwittingly, in a scheme to use the government to cause distress in retaliation to a personal dispute..... sounds like the lunch menu for a roomful of lawyers. I doubt the FAA would allow itself to be pulled in to a personal dispute, because the FAA would be exposed to liability.

There is also a potential libel issue with Harry posting his accusation on a public forum?

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: From The Factory 2

Bill and tribe;
I don't think the FAA can be sued, atleast not without piercing their status as a govening body. Meaning you've got to have proof of coruption, bribes, things like that.

Probably there's not much to this but hurt feelings and
threatening posture. I suggest we give it a few days and
some straight talk from those in the know before we all
go crazy. That said regarding lible -- truth is an adequate defense. Malice aforethought, is not. So if you've got something malicious to say, and I'm not suggesting anyone on this board ever thinks that way, then I'd take the vinegar out and be plain spoken truthful.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[dedrekon]

Re: From The Factory 2

My opinion, expressed AGAIN unasked for, is.......the thread should stay open. It's the American way, it's the Taylorcraft way (no offense meant to our beloved and equally democratic friends across the pond). This forum is a perfect example of that. We express what we think. I recently fired a couple of shots across the bow on some issues that I thought were a problem and was very impressed by how fast it was addressed and with the class that it was handled. I hope this kind of frank interaction can continue.
On the other hand, I do think this would be a very good time for Forrest and other parties named to hold their tongues. I'm usually for complete disclosure and very transparent dealings, especially with a non-profit group such as this, but when lawsuits are threatened.....then it's time to let your lawyer do the talking. DO NOT give anyone ammunition to use against you.
Let the information come out and let the individual opinions be expressed, but be cautious.......what you post can and will be used against you in a court of law.

V

[Forrest Barber]

Re: From The Factory 2

The second thread should stay open, I was not in favor of the first closing EXCEPT that the first thread was started by some one who first registered on 9-5-06 not givng their name.

You are correct, I will not have much more to say except the TRUTH never hurts.

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: From The Factory 2

There was an earlier reference in this thread to the Luscombe Foundation. Since I was not familiar with the reference -- I looked it up. PopularAviation.com provided the following account:
With regards; ED OBRIEN

Combs Resigns as President of Luscombe Foundation
By PopularAviation.com Staff
Posted Tuesday, January 28, 2003

On January 18, 2003 the Don Luscombe Aviation History Foundation accepted the resignation of DOug Combs, its founder and president. The board elected a new president, Ronald (Ron) Price.

Mr. Price stated that he is committed to resolving the legal disputes between the Foundation and Renaissance Aircraft in Cape Girdeau, Missouri. Price announced that he is in contact with John Deardon, president of Renaissance Aircraft, in hopes of reaching resolution about the issues, in order that construction of new Luscombe aircraft can commence.

There is a history of suits, counter-suits, and judgements between these two parties. In late 2001, an arbitrator found Combs and the Foundation liable for $1.9 million in damages against Renaissance, with an additional $500,000 in punitive damages.

There is (or was -- the staus is unclear) a pending lawsuit by the Foundation against Renaissance and the estate of Moody Larsen for return of materials. According to a source close to the litigation, this counter-suit is valued at more than $8 million.

One thing is clear: as usual, it's the attorneys that win, and the aircraft owners who suffer.

The Luscombe Foundation's mission os to preserve the history of Luscombe aircraft with parts and technical support.

[alwaysoar]

Re: From The Factory 2

The problem for us on the forum is that something is going on, and we know not what. What was the outcome of the sheriff's sale, why was there a sherriff's sale, what is the status of the factory, what provoked Harry's outburst, is there anything to what Harry is claiming, what does all this mean for Taylorcraft owners? Is all this going to leak out to the aviation community thus eroding confidence in old TCrafts, and their value? Is Forrest going to stop selling parts, will others stop selling parts, is the factory selling parts? Who the hell knows what's going on, and when are they going to let us know?

Ed @ BTV VT
TF 527

[crispy critter]

Re: From The Factory 2

All good questions Ed and I'm sure we would all like to know the answers to these or at least a little insite. However,Dedrekon has a very good point too about watching what one says without the absolute provable truth on their side.
I really like the direction in which this thread is taking us. It is good to hear everyone talking about all of this and rising the questions that we want answers to without pointing fingers or putting anyone down. If we are pataint I'm sure all our questions will be answered in time and we will all know what is going on.
I would adivse anyone who desides to share what they know about the subjuct at hand to be very careful how they word it and make sure you don't put yourself on the witness stand.Thanks to everyone for such great behavior which is allowing us to keep this thread open thus far.

[crispy critter]

Re: From The Factory 2

This is all pretty depressing and distracting. Crispy, how do you like your old spliced lift struts now? I love mine; thought I wanted new ones.

Ed@BTV VT
TF 527

Ed,
I am starting to really feel like my welding abilities are not all that bad Maybe I should just take the good ends off of the damaged or spliced struts that I have,buy the tubing and make my own....under the owner produced part rule.

[Forrest Barber]

Re: From The Factory 2

THAT 2003 post on the Luscombe Foundation is really OLD news. A lot has happened since then.......Be careful about digging up old inaccurate information. You can follow the true story with Doug Combs himself and the Foundation web sites..

The Foundation is not the place for the information flow from the Taylorcraft Factory; THAT is up to the Factory, check their web site, call Mr. Ingram, call the Brownsville Airport Director, call and find out.
I, Forrest Barber, have been viciously attacked by some one who did register as the factory and signed the name of Harry Ingram, it is all being checked out by the proper authorities. Say tuned for any information from Brownsville or the various Avaition magazines.
Any parts from here in all the years are documented and every data plate had the "letter of authorization" from the FAA , the proper data stamped on it, mailed to the registered owner with he blessing of the FAA.
WE have the factory records from the early days and use them to the benefit of the owners of today. PARTS, who knows, there is a lot of bogus stuff out there, be careful.