Cubcrafters suing Legend

[Ragwing nut]

Re: Cubcrafters suing Legend

ANYONE can paint a plane(tractor) CUB(green and yellow) colors as long as they are not using the color(brand identity) for PROFIT.

So when I sell my J-3 to the next guy I can't make any money on it because it is infringing on Cub-Crafters rights? Sarcastic, but you get my point. Cub-crafters is trying to control the market through intimidation and although they may be right legally, it is unethical to sue over a color scheme unless they actually have the yellow/black lightning bolt trademarked which I still feel is rediculous.

What it boils down to is Cub-Crafters got sued by Piper several years ago and lost forcing the name change on their Super-Cubs. They got burned badly so now they are playing hard ball and returning the favor.

mike

[VictorBravo]

Re: Cubcrafters suing Legend

There may be another angle on this...

The "Piper Cub" is a long standing American icon, in the minds of millions of non-pilots this phrase represents every small airplane ever produced. It may have transcended everything and be considered in the "public domain". Consider that any customized high performance street car can be called a "Hot Rod", and nobody can sue anyone else if Chevrolet decided to name their next car the Chevy Hot Rod. Not even the NHRA, I would guess.

The $64 question is whether Cub Crafters had the right to trademark the word "Cub" and any aircraft-related use of the word "Cub", and whether they did trademark that word by itself. If the government allowed them to trademark the word "Cub", then the government made a big mistake. The government should have said to Cub Crafters "Sorry, you can have Cub Crafters and you can have a specific model name like Bush Cub or Mountain Cub, but the Cub by itself is the worldwide concept of an airplane that has been known and duplicated by thousands long before you applied for this trademark."

Now if Piper Aircraft Co. had trademarked the Cub name, colors, and concept back in the 1930's, AND if they sold that trademark to Cub Crafters, then it would be a clear case of infringement. However, even in that situat5ion, if Piper owned the name and concept, and didn't enforce it for 70 years while others built little yellow Cub-alikes, then a court could rule that Legend wasn't doing anything that Piper hadn't allowed everyone else to do.

[hangarb7]

Re: Cubcrafters suing Legend

This is a great thread.

But Gee, Ed, I think you missed my point. I certainly understand that the courts are the proper arena for consideration and decision on the outcome of this case. I have often said that I could not comment on a court decision (such as the poor girl in Florida that had her feeding tube disconnected) because I didn't hear the arguments as they were presented by the interested parties before the court. We only heard what the media reported and certainly it is difficult for any reporter not to unknowingly inject a personal slant to such a gut-wrenching (from BOTH sides) issue.

What I was saying was that Starbucks was consistent with their pursuit of purity of name and trademark for such a similar product as a coffee shop. And Samantha Bucks knew that she was infringing, but figured she would slip under the wire because of her relative size of enterprise (same with John Deere green & yellow infractors).

But in the case of yellow, black bolt-charged high wing airplanes called Cubs, Legend isn't the first or even the only CURRENT sellers of airplanes that look, smell and are confused as being Cubs.

Check out these links. The question was raised was that it appears that since Legend is now taking a bite out of Cub Crafters, they felt it was NOW the time to pursue the issue. LEgend has been around for at least a couple of years, as far as press releases are concerned.

http://www.lightminiatureaircraft.com/Gallery.htm

(models include the LM-1A-W J3 Cub and the LM-5A Super Cub; guess the color and the stripe chosen....been around since about 1996)

http://www.nb.net/~tigercub/ulinfo.html

(models include the Tiger Cub and TC2.... yellow and struck by the same bolt and selling these since the year 2000)

http://www.fisherflying.com/fleet/FP202/

(not called a Cub. This is a Koala, but the press reviewers have always called it a Cub-lookalike. And why? take a look at the color scheme...)

AND, there are others. They come and go. It seems that the color scheme, as consistent as it is with being identified as a Cub, really is part of the landscape now...

Just my 2 cents. I'll send you my bill.

All in fun and I respect your opinion.

Jack

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Cubcrafters suing Legend

I'll refer you back to my earlier post about the onetime ubiquitous velvet Elvis Paintings that were once sold on every side walk in America. The Presley Family shamed, sued, and threatened enough of those people to shut down the
Elvis images and I think, because I haven't seen any in many years, painting on velvet. (over-statement meant as joke)Those that own the rights either defend in court the rights, or lose the rights through neglect. There's a legal term here which I can't remember but it's the same principle as abandoning a property line and a neighbor's putting up fence which is a few inches onto the adjacent property. Eventually the property line is moved by default. The original property is lost to the original or onetime owner, as time passes.

My point being is -- There may not be any advantage to defending an intellectual property right, such as bolts on local airplanes, or a unique yellow on a Cub, until commercial and business necessities dictate a rallying of legal muscle. Meaning, CubCrafters doesn't want to bother you. But, CubCrafters may need to bother Legend and for legitimate and legal commercial reasons. Again, I'm not arguing the case but the principles -- which are sound. The Producers of "Snakes on a Plane" may not raid every street vendor in Hong Kong with a boot-legged DVD of their movie. But, they may go after a DVD Production House in Shanghai. Or in the case of the Elvis paintings, 3 or 4 commercial producers in Mexico of millions of Velvet Elvis'. So the King may not have left the building but has abandoned the side-walk, so to speak.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[alwaysoar]

Re: Cubcrafters suing Legend

The new Taylor Cub which is "coming soon" according to the Taylorcraft site will be painted "any color as long as it's yellow and black."

[birdlegs]

Re: Cubcrafters/and Elvis?

Ed; I'm thinking the Presley foundation may have enough dough to sue god out of heaven,what American legend needs is a lightning bolt thats got significant dissimalarities such as say, three jags instead of the standard two. Maybe The Radio Flyer wagon co. should sue Cub Crafters didn't they have the first lighting bolt?

[Ed O'Brien]

Re: Cubcrafters suing Legend

Coke sues people all over the world for Trademark infringment. The last time I looked they've got something like 300 inhouse Atlanta based lawyers and I guess hundreds of law firms around the globe defending the "COKE" symbols including the fat and jolly Santas of 50 years ago. Disney does the same... if they didn't everything they own would be worth nothing. I find it interesting and even funny that MicroSoft defends intellectual property that was given them by Xerox and IBM -- Sometimes even suing Xerox and IBM in the process. Explaining this isn't easy but... if you own a house there are likely trees on your property. Did you plant them? Probably not. Did you make them grow? No nature, God, etc. does most of that work. Can you claim them as your own and shoot someone attempting to steal that tree, yes. Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents, etc.
are common rights but extended to the brain. By taking out
a copyright you've stated this is mine. By defending it you've metaphorically shot the man trying to steal it.
It's rather simple but much law makes it complex, unneccesarily.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[dedrekon]

Re: Cubcrafters suing Legend

Speaking of Elvis.....I wonder if Cub Crafters will go after his estate for using the "Cub" lightning bolt in Elvis' personal "Taking Care of Business" logo? He DID in fact have it painted on the side of all his various airplanes.

[crispy critter]

Re: Cubcrafters suing Legend

Ed,
I have a lawer friend or two also but I must be serious when I say that 20 paces and a quick draw would certainly make most people get along a lot better and there would be a lot less dissagreements in the world.
In todays world of buisness,courts,lawsuits,and lawers if a small time honest man gets sued he will loose everything he's got but when it backfires on the sewer all they do is hire a different lawer,file bankrupt,never have to pay anything back all while they start over under a different name!!!! Give them the damn pistols and start counting! LOL . Just my humble opinion.

[cpirrmann]

Re: Cubcrafters suing Legend

This is also the problem with 'precedent'. Every case should be handled on it's own. Just because they have a legal right to do so, doesn't mean they should. Unfortunatley, law and justice are seperate things.

To the legal extreme, they could sue any high wing smallplane as most people when asked what kind of plane it was will say a Piper Cub. Fortunately, I believe (or hope) that they will have to prove that Legend's use of the scheme has affected their sales or profit. It's all a sticky mess.


As much as we might to slam attorneys, journalists, or politicians, remember, without clients, viewers or constituents, they can do nothing, so 'we the people' share half the blame. And in the case of good ones, no matter how rare, half the credit .

[NY86]

Re: Cubcrafters suing Legend

I hope I can get this "right" enough to do it justice.

10 or so years back, Southwest airlines came up with an advertising slogan "Plane simple". Turns out an FBO in the southeast had already coined and been using the slogan. They threatened to sue. Long story short, the president of the FBO, a body builder, agreed to arm wrestle the president of SWA, a 2 pack a day smoker, for the rights. Keller, the president of SWA lost. The president of the FBO agreed to license the slogan to SWA for something like a $20,000 contribution to his favorite charity. Everyone went home happy; everyone won.

AFAIKT, Cubcrafters and Legend going at it can't help anyone except the lawyers.

[dmcneil]

Re: Cubcrafters suing Legend

Hey All,

I've been fllowing the Cub Crafters vs. Legend suit. I don't know anything about the legal merits of Cub Crafters position. From a public relations and marketing perspective, it certainly seems like a disaster. Both companies are very well capitalized and a prolonged suit would not be in either parties interest. Perhaps that is why they are behaving like adults. According to a court filing from 7/20/2006 available through Public Access to Court Electronic Records (PACER), Cub Crafters and Legend have, "...Reached a settlement in principal and are in the process of negotiating a final settlement agreement."

Looks like this may end soon and in a manner that doesn't tarnish anyone too badly.

Dan

[cpirrmann]

Re: Cubcrafters suing Legend

Hey All,

I've been fllowing the Cub Crafters vs. Legend suit. I don't know anything about the legal merits of Cub Crafters position. From a public relations and marketing perspective, it certainly seems like a disaster. Both companies are very well capitalized and a prolonged suit would not be in either parties interest. Perhaps that is why they are behaving like adults. According to a court filing from 7/20/2006 available through Public Access to Court Electronic Records (PACER), Cub Crafters and Legend have, "...Reached a settlement in principal and are in the process of negotiating a final settlement agreement."

Looks like this may end soon and in a manner that doesn't tarnish anyone too badly.

Dan

Huzzah! Huzzah!

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Cubcrafters suing Legend

Wow I have been missing out on things. I like the 20 paces and fire method. How about the "Taylorcraft" trademark here in Ohio.... hmmmmmm

[birdlegs]

Re: Cubcrafters vs Legend

How 'bout that;They managed to find a solution to a problem without destroying each other, and I'll bet good money its a simple and suttle change.The big winner is competitive industry and the spirit it makes