Dry Lake Boogie #258

[VictorBravo]

I just have to crow about today's flight. I flew out to El Mirage dry lake (one of my old sailplane stomping grounds) to practice some short landings with no distractions. There is an old windsock on a pole in a dirt mound on one end of the lake bed. I used that as my threshold for an imaginary runway. I did three or four short landings, with moderate to heavy brake useage. Turned around as soon as possible and taxied back. After 4 landings I walked over to where the tire tracks turned, assuming that this would be about the minimum landing run point. Walked heel-to-toe back from that point to the windsock, which would give me the distance I used to land. It was 258 shoes. Later, I measured the length of the shoe which was 12.25 inches, yielding a minimum landing distance of 263.33 feet into a very light wind maybe 3 or 4 miles an hour. This was without vortex generators, making reasonably smooth landings, and using but not destroying my brakes. The surface was smooth and dusty (typical Mojave desert silt dry lake).

What kind of minimum landing distance figures do you guys get?

[Acroeric]

Re: Dry Lake Boogie #258

Bill- I like to do the same at our little grass field. Sometimes when I really stick it I like to turn around and look at how little runway I used. I know I am getting it stopped in less than 300 as well but I am sure the grass helps a bit. We have a strip about 2 miles from my house and the first 300 ft portion has about a 3 percent grade. I have been stopped in 225 ft or so with the use of the hill and having to actually throttle up to make it all the way up it. Approach speed is everything- I like to get them just at the speed where the sink rate really rises (anyone with alot of Tcraft time knows this speed/ feel) and approach there. I do not do it when I am heavy or if it is turbulent. There is not alot left for the flare but she doesn't float either.

My farm strip (when I ever finish it) will only be around 1000ft but it is at a 4 percent grade. Kevin Mays saw it when he was here and he thought it would be fine-he even said he would bring his 170 in here. It sure looks short from the air though- maybe because the trees at the top that are not mine.

I am sure we could land them shorter but we may not be able to re-use them afterwards.

[Howard Wilson]

Re: Dry Lake Boogie #258

Bill, Were the landings with or without power? When I had an old Aeronca Chief with the Clark Y?, (on a calm day,) I could drag that thing in under power right at the back edge of the power curve, settle into ground effect then pull the plug over the spot we wanted to hit. It would squat right down and roll just a little. I'm not as used to the T-craft airfoil, it doesn't whisper to me yet. So not trying that near the ground

[M Jones]

Re: Dry Lake Boogie #258

Too much coffee this morning maybe, but this reminds me of a local flight I made one morning sometime last winter. I beat everyone else out to the airport (well, maybe everyone else was smart enough to stay home because it was COLD...), and we had gotten about 4" of dry snow over night. It's all grass, nothing paved at the airport, and I taxied out and took off into a mild head wind. When I got back a little later, there still wasn't any sign of life, and the tracks from my taxi/take off really stood out from the air. We were off the field at about the displaced threshold markers. Kind of looked like a tailwheel airplane had been abducted by aliens while taxiing. There were just tracks from the hangar, and to the entrance of the runway.

Come to think of it, maybe someone uses a Taylorcraft to get into fields to make those crop circles in the UK. Rob, have you been messing with people over there all these years???

[Dano"T"]

Re: Dry Lake Boogie #258

I did the same thing last Sunday...25mph wind on the lake. I took off in probably 50' on skis. When I landed my neighbor said it looked like I was going 5mph when I touched down...I said it was more like 10. He laughed like I was kidding. I guess I'd have to call that the frozen lake boogie.

[crispy critter]

Re: Dry Lake Boogie #258

Bill- I like to do the same at our little grass field. Sometimes when I really stick it I like to turn around and look at how little runway I used. I know I am getting it stopped in less than 300 as well but I am sure the grass helps a bit. We have a strip about 2 miles from my house and the first 300 ft portion has about a 3 percent grade. I have been stopped in 225 ft or so with the use of the hill and having to actually throttle up to make it all the way up it. Approach speed is everything- I like to get them just at the speed where the sink rate really rises (anyone with alot of Tcraft time knows this speed/ feel) and approach there. I do not do it when I am heavy or if it is turbulent. There is not alot left for the flare but she doesn't float either.

My farm strip (when I ever finish it) will only be around 1000ft but it is at a 4 percent grade. Kevin Mays saw it when he was here and he thought it would be fine-he even said he would bring his 170 in here. It sure looks short from the air though- maybe because the trees at the top that are not mine.

I am sure we could land them shorter but we may not be able to re-use them afterwards.

The grade will really help erics field a lot. I have a 170B right now(it's for sell)with a full blown Horton STOL kit that I take in and out of a 500' farm field behind my buddies store...open approches with only a fence at each end but it really performs good. With the grade on Eric's flied I would not hesitate to go in there in a stock 170 if the wind and load were light(2 people and half gas).

[VictorBravo]

Re: Dry Lake Boogie #258

Bill, Were the landings with or without power?

Without power. Fairly straightforward power off approaches, with the only difference being a pattern altitude of 100-200 AGL and very close in.

Somebody mentioned the high sink rate feeling when you are approaching slowly in a T-craft. I felt it yesterday myself, with the ASI indicating about 50 on short final. I was afraid that I would run out of elevator to flare and hit hard, so at the last second I lowered the nose to gain 3 or 4 mph then pulled the yoke back to convert those extra few mph into a flare. I had to "aim" for a spot about 50 or 75 feet short of my intended touchdown point and then use up all the floating to get it stalled on the target. Iknow this means that I was a little too fast but I was a bit spooked about having aproblem running out of elevator, or a gust, or low altitude wind shear.

Although I was fairly sharp on the stick in the days of my youth, I have to admit that there is a thick layer of rust and dust on my flying skills because of not being able to fly nearly as much as I used to. Scraping and shaking off that rust is a top priority for me and my little senior citizen airplane. Who knows... perhaps I will be the first washed up has-been to actually re-capture the youthful skills and bravado of 20 years ago? At least the T-craft is the right airplane to assist me in this pursuit.

[Robert Lees]

Re: Dry Lake Boogie #258

maybe someone uses a Taylorcraft to get into fields to make those crop circles in the UK

My secret's out!

[Len Petterson]

Re: Dry Lake Boogie #258

No dry lakes in Niagara region but I am supprised what this "terrible floater"
can do if you know how to handel them.
I was warned; "It floats to the end of any runway" . No, not if you handle her right. My last landing:Comming in over 50 ft trees on 3 sides of the runway. I crank in a "dive in" style sideslip with 60 on the clock, NO more!
We stoped in less whem 300 ft, on a slight up hill grass runway.
Nose high flare with 11-1200 rpm at 45 mph and she sat down with very little roll out. Take of from the same runway takes 500 ft, uphill and power lines at the other end. 2000 feet long with bend in the middle.
The runway is little tricky but the mechanic is good.

Len

[Dano"T"]

Re: Dry Lake Boogie #258

Carrying a little power for short field landings works well for me...it gives the elevator authority necessary for a gentle flare...often times the tail touches first using this technique. Len...60 seems to work well for me also while slipping...50-55 in my pre-war though...that one floats alot more than my BC12D-85.....it's 79lbs lighter.