Announcement

**Richard Boyer** · 02-12-2006, 16:01

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

Actually, I think the two year annual is a good idea! I would probably still go through everything myself each year.

Richard Boyer
N95791

**Forrest Barber** · 02-12-2006, 17:27

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

Exactly ! Each ship should be looked over, more than pre-flight, each 50 hours or each six months. Oil at 25 with only a screen. We used to call them "Periodic" inspections , now we can go to two years sometime.
I wonder how many Taylorcraft heat muffs have been pulled each 20 hours like the Factory bulletin says to do. My Dad used to really love that with the Taylorcraft Flying Club ships ahving it done about each two weeks. I use a CO detector to check for cracks!

**M Jones** · 02-13-2006, 17:38

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

[QUOTE=Forrest Barber]
I wonder how many Taylorcraft heat muffs have been pulled each 20 hours like the Factory bulletin says to do.QUOTE]

I know the heat muff was taken off of mine at the last annual. All the screws were missing when I went and picked it up!

Problem solved soon after.....

**dedrekon** · 02-14-2006, 13:54

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

This sounds like a great idea to me, but after reading the proposal, I have a couple of questions that I haven't seen specifically addressed.

Would this end the need for STCs or field approvals to, for example, convert a 65 to an 85, or to put larger tires on or add electrical gear.......I guess I mean modifications in general? What happens to all those people that own STCs if that is the case? It seems like a lot of Taylorcrafts would get engine upgrades pretty fast, judging from what I read on this Forum.

Would switching your aircraft to this category affect insurance rates?

How would this effect our ability to fly "out of country".....Mexico, Canada, South America, etc. I thought the Canadian Owner Maintained Category airplanes could not enter U.S. airspace.

**lfries** · 02-14-2006, 14:23

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

Not on the subject but close. I just inquired of AVEMCO re flying my Taylorcraft as a Sport Pilot. I was told there would be no change in premium. I only carry liability figuring the left over parts may be worth my initial investment. In an AC can be an Investment.

**robbie** · 02-14-2006, 18:01

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

This is the same story I got from them. Mind came due in Oct. last year and there was no increase.
Great for us bc12d guys.

**selje** · 02-14-2006, 21:09

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

With a different insurance company, there was no change in rates when I went to sport pilot flying with BC12-D. I also only have liability insurance for the same reasons.

**Len Petterson** · 02-15-2006, 04:24

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

A Canadian aircrafts in Owner Maintinence category can NOT fly anywhere but in Canada. At the Present time!
If a similar category is establiched in the USA we be Ok as a resiprory ( I think what they call it) aggrement between the goverments comes in place,
FAA and DOT has to aggree to it, than we can cross the border agin, just like they did with homebuilts some 30 years ago.
No, our insurance rate is not affected by changing category. Some Taylorcraft are also flown here as Ultra ligths = SLA. I guess a Taylorcarft is Taylorcraft no matter what we registrer it as when it come to damage.
Mine can go either way so long as I am below 1200 Lbs in gross weight for LSA rule.
In Owner Maintinence I have to follow any directives given for the type like 337, STC's, or as a DOT inspector put " aproved methods" following the 43 ???
For example: I can put in green house roof my own way so long as I desing the mounting in a way what follows 43 ??? .
After having spent 30 years in the auto industry as millright/pipefitter and seen anything from high speed forging presses to robots the Taylorcraft is technicly simple, but as with anything,
follow the rules and it remaines SAFE!

One of our club members find himself with out tailwheel steering and rudder on rollout in his 25 year old Starduster.
This after a thourogh purchase and annual inspection. He had NO drawing for the plane to follow, and did not know what the rudder cables hade a guide wheel in the after cock pit behind the side panels, (Only about a 10 deg angular change of direction)wich was installed with a to small of a diameter for the cable size. The builder had NOT followed ALL of the rules, and new owner did not have ALL tecnical documentation NEEDED to to do the inspection!

Why is my tecnical manual getting bigger?
Thanks to all the "good stuff" I print out from this website and other scoures!
Do I sort trought this information? Yes!
Do I verify the information with some one else?Yes!

Industrial maintinence went like this:
Method one: Do what the forman said to do!
Method two: Do what the forman said to do!
When what din't work, When we followed the MANUAL!
TO MUCH WORK, but we worked lots of over time!= lots off $$$$$$$

In Aviation we seldom get a second chance so follow the Manual only.
and we get go home for supper with our loved once!

Len Petterson

**Ragwing nut** · 02-15-2006, 11:28

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

As a A&P an IA, I see this going both ways. THere are the responsible types like on this board that will see fit their airplane is maintained properly, and there are those who will be free to think they can do whatever they see fit which are the ones that scare. They are out there I know, I deal with them daily already when it comes time to order parts.

As far as insurance, there is no difference "in your airplane" when flown in LSA. You are just meeting a criteria. Ask your insurance company on what the difference would be if it was "experimental" because that is what you would own. There is plenty of T-crafts and other vintage aircraft missing paperwork.

I can't tell you what to do with your airplanes but as the EAA has written this up, it is not the answer.

Mike

**N96337** · 02-15-2006, 12:57

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

I agree, Mike.... this isn't the "answer". One thing that they're missing in there as far as I'm concerned is that they don't address the FAA employees being trained or allowed to use any "common sense".... and that's pretty much what's led to this mess as it is...
I'm an A&P/IA too, and have dealt with too many of the "I've been flying these airplanes for 40 (insert whatever number) years and I know what needs to be.." and it scares me too.
I think something needs to be done, but this isn't much of a solution the way I see it.
John H.

**NC95842** · 02-16-2006, 07:08

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

does anyone know when this might go into effect? I cant wait!!! I will stick old NC95842 in in a sec!

**mulwyk** · 02-16-2006, 11:03

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

Jonathan:
I don't know when it'll go into effect, but I guarantee there'll be a big rush of folks like you and me that want in. I think the EAA is right, this will be a BIG boost to grassroots aviation in America.

Bob Gustafson

**Forrest Barber** · 02-16-2006, 14:53

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

Just back from the IA renewal with a two hour session on the FAA version of LSA by Edsel Ford ( he is in charge) ..... EAA got it started all right, I refused to join their efforts for DAR for this and the Experimental sign-offs...Now I see a hope for the future ; when I find time I will start the Thread for all this new Certification... in the meantime keep the discussion going amongst the tribe !
Insurance only goes up if you go beyond Liability only..... ask any Insurance Accuary (sp) about the Passenger lawsuits and I think we would only fly solo....
Bill O'Brien was there too ( at the renewal school) on the NEW AC 43.13 ( repair and alterations) . many Good changes coming...

**Ragwing nut** · 02-16-2006, 18:52

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

Forrest, what new changes are coming to AC43?

Our family has known Edsel for many years. Another friend of mine, Les Seargent, was heading up LSA until he went back to teaching seminars.

Mike

**Forrest Barber** · 02-16-2006, 21:33

Re: EAA Vintage Aircraft Proposal

Shhhh we have been sworn to secrecy

At the present time believe it or not a lot of Service Manuals ARE Approved Data, I have the date over in the office ( around 1970) and the methods of Alterations & Repairs will be eased up those out in the Field , there will be a draft and a Comment period coming. IF YOU don't like it COMMENT. Most of this stuff gets approved without any or very few comments. AMT magazine with Bill O'Briens articles will cover it . I guess our Dynalifter made the AMT internet too!