checking auto gas for alcohol

[robbie]

Where does one find the equipment or stuff to check auto gas for alcohol.
How much is it?

[selje]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

Where does one find the equipment or stuff to check auto gas for alcohol.
How much is it?

All you need is a test tube or small diameter glass container with stopper, small amount of water and grease pen.

[M Towsley]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

Robbie,

Use the search function and you should find information on this, as I remember posting in the past regarding this. Petersen Aviation sells these test tubes pre-marked with instructions. If you want more information contact me off-line and I will give you detailed instructions.

[mulwyk]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

It's an easy test, I wouldn't even bother with the test tube. Any glass container will work. See the EAA website (click on auto fuel) for a detailed description.

But basically what you do is: (1)put some water and some of the gas you're testing into a glass container (I use an old Mason jar), (2) mark the gas/water line on the side of the container with a grease pen or a piece of tape (3) shake the container to mix the water and gas, any ethanol in the gas will combine with the water, then (4) let the container set for a few minutes, the "water" will settle to the bottom but this time it will have the ethanol in it. Observe the line marked on the container, if the water level went up then you have ethanol in your fuel, if it stayed the same...no ethanol.

Bob Gustafson

[high time cub]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

Here's the link:
http://www.eaa.org/education/fuel/oxygenated.html

[dedrekon]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

Actually, after you've done it a few times you can tell almost instantly whether there's alcohol in it....just shake it vigorously and the alcohol will "bead" up on top of the gas.
I think Peterson makes a kit you can buy pretty cheap, but a couple of plastic bottles will do just as well. I carry one bottle of water and one empty bottle, so I'm always ready for the quickie check.
DON'T believe what the gas station attendants tell you. They have no idea what's in their fuel.

[Robert Lees]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

Incidentally, it's similar to getting sugar out of gasoline (well in the pre-lockable automotobile fuel-cap days ):

Drain the fuel, add water...the sugar will preferentially dissolve in the water. Separate the two, put the fuel back in, hey presto!

But it doesn't do much good if you've already run the car!

[Sloanlow]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

I run auto gas in my tri pacer with enourmoous success. I do not concern myself with alcohol as I have no reason to believe it is present in my fuel. I do run the lowest octain avail. I have been told that the higher octain auto fuel has alcohol. Additionally I try to run a combo 100 LL and auto gas just to get a little lead on the valve seats and guides.

Jim

[M Towsley]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

Jim,

Contrary to what you have been told, the higher octane gas from the majors, BP/Amoco, Shell, etc. should NOT have alcohol in their highest octane choices. It is very difficult around where I live to get any lower octane non-alcohol gas, in fact there is only one station I have found. Some stations will get gas with ethanol, (alcohol), without knowing it, or at least without paying attention to the manifest. The pump must be marked, as in "may have" or "has" up to 10% ethanol. Though I would not trust that every station in the United States complies with these laws. Look at some of my older posts regarding this. I have a family member with ties to the area of motor fuel, so I trust the information I am getting. If you are not at least periodically testing, you may be getting ethanol, and you have a much, much better chance of getting it in the low octane fuel. All of the fuel companies buy and sell their low octane fuel, both in the pipeline and in the truck, to each other all the time, as it is all the same. If you have a propensity to buy, say, BP low octane for your car because it is a "name" brand and it costs two or three cents more than the lesser known brand, DON'T! IT IS ALL THE SAME!!! Hope this helps.

[N96337]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

I used to haul fuel for a living, and we were a 76 distributor, we'd load at a Texaco rack, in the same line with Conoco, Chevron, BP, Arco, and Shell trucks.
John H.

[Sloanlow]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

My research indicates that alcohol is the primary octain modifiyer in unleaded fuels. the higher the octain the more alcohol present.

So for an autogass STC one would probable want to go with the lowest usable octain fuel to avoid alcohol. In leaded fuel the lead is what raises the octain level.

An extra plus for leaded fuels is lubircation of valve seats and guides. 100LL has about 3 grams of lead in each gallon...soooo since I have an 80 octain motor, I choose to run two gallons of autogas to one gallon of 100 LL to make a kind of home made 80 octain avgas that has 1 gram / gallon which is what the old 80 octain used to have. you guys that are running 100 LL are having lead problems. you just don't know it.

I read in another site about how folks are having troble with MOGAS in their aircraft. Funny thing but both were low wing aircraft. I may be wrong but aircraft applications utilizing fuel pumps cannot get a Mogas STC. If you see someone fueling a low wing with auto gas don't fly with them.

Since I lost power once in a leaded up 80 octain motor that resulted in a emergency landing, I tend to worry less about the potential effect of a very small amout of alcohol than the certain effect of running 100 LL in an 80 octain motor.

[M Towsley]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

Jim,

The real reason there is ethanol in your fuel is for incentives. Their incentives are usually tax breaks for retailers to utilize ethanol in their fuels. This adds up to a rather large chunk of change if you think of the gallonage these retailers sell. My sources advised that BP (Amoco) Premium, not mid-grade, SHOULD be alcohol free. Testing I have done locally confirms this. However, I still run low-grade alcohol free fuel, as I don't want to spend twenty cents more per gallon.

[N96337]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

80 octane has no lead in it anymore... found that out the hard way by running it in a fresh overhauled R985 about 10 years ago.. within 100hrs, we failed 5 of 9 cylinders.. valve seats were pounded right out!! The other benefit of lead in fuel is that it acts as a wonderful heat transfer for the valve area. The lead also cushions the valve a bit, but the heat tranfer is equally important. There's a really interesting program going on at South Dakota State University where they're running an Ag-cat on straight ethanol... just talked to the guy on Monday... It's really working well and they have about 1,000+ hrs and great results.

http://www3.sdstate.edu/Administration/UniversityRelations/NewsServices/NewsArchives/August2004/newsarchive8044/Index.cfm

John H.

[robbie]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

Lots of information going on here.
I like the idea of some 100LL and good old auto gas.
Thanks for the information on testing for alcohol.
Another great day for flying here in Wisconson.
Looks like it could be one of the warmest Jan. on record up here in Wisconsin.
Got 6 hours of flying this month.
That a first in 22 years here.

[M Towsley]

Re: checking auto gas for alcohol

Hey Robbie,

Like I said, any specific questions, you can e-mail me off-line. It has been a very warm January for us down in Illinois, too, though the winds have been a little high. Saw a groundspeed of 132 mph on my way back from lunch last week. Hope the warm weather continues into February.

Regards,