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Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
So, I see this Tcraft in S. VA on Barnstormers and give the guy a call. Ask him for the N number and he can't remember, needs to look at his notes(never did get the number) . Then he offers to send me the specs via e-mail; they never arrive. Anyway, I'm getting ready to drive down tomorrow and he calls to make sure I"m coming down and I tell him that's the plan; I ask him about the 25 year old Ceconite and he says it never deteriorates. Oh, sez I, what about protection from the UV, doesn't that affect the material? No, sez he, the silver is just to keep the heat out. Hmmm, sez I, that conflicts with what Dondi and Jim Miller say. He hems and haws. Then he says he needs to warn me that he doesn't want "any young A&P taking plates off and things" and plugs. Wait a second, sez I, are you saying you won't allow someone doing a pre-buy to do a compression check? Nope, sez he, that info is in the log book from the last annual. So I sez Sir, if you won't let an independent A&P do as complete an inspection as he deems necessary, I might as well not come down. On that we agreed. Saved the trip. The seller was Rob Murdock - Mike
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Mike Horowitz
Falls Church, Va
BC-12D, N5188M
TF - 14954 -
Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
Sez I: Tell him you will pay scrap value for it, unless of course he can prove that it is a usable airplane.
What about an OLD A&P? I may know a couple that lurk in these waters.......Taylorcraft : Making Better Aviators for 75 Years... and Counting
Bill Berle
TF#693
http://www.ezflaphandle.com
http://www.grantstar.net
N26451 (1940 BL(C)-65) 1988-90
N47DN (Auster Autocrat) 1992-93
N96121 (1946 BC-12D-85) 1998-99
N29544 (1940 BL(C)-85) 2005-08 -
Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
Next step - MikeOriginally posted by VictorBravoMike Horowitz
Falls Church, Va
BC-12D, N5188M
TF - 14954Comment
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Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
Mike , As soon as you mentioned the location AND I saw recently in Trade A Plane or BarnStormers where he was selling a Taylorcraft I knew who you were talking about. Several years ago I recieved pictures of a Taylorcraft he was selling. I must say the PICTURES looked good (taken from what I would now guess at 50 feet!) SOO I came up with a friend in his Cherokee (Spent a $%# on fuel THEN) and got there. He met us at the airport and made us feel a little small about being 40 min late then proceeded to tell me how he had another buyer due in the next day- yada yada yada. I got thereand as soon as I rounded the corner I took one look said to myself NO WAY am I gonna buy THAT plane.
In my opinion you saved yourself some money and time. By the way he has planes (and engines!!) for sale with some regularity. I see his name often in Trade- A-Plane I believe.
Oh Boy.Comment
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Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
Sounds like the type of guy that needs to be doing something else for a hobby.If he won't let an IA inspect the airplane then I wonder if he would remove everything,let you and your IA look inside then he can put it back together.Also,see if he will do the compression check while you watch him do it.If he won't do any of it then it sounds like he has lots to hide.Kevin Mays
West Liberty,KyComment
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Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
He's just looking for a sucker, could have been me once (was me once), and he'll probably sell it to some trustful type eager to buy a legendary TCraft. The problem buying these old airplanes is that even IF they pass a pre-buy, they're still a pig in a poke and you have to go in with your eyes wide open. It's probably worth the price of a project, but even then there are nice projects out there and I sure wouldn't want to jump on this one. 25 year old ceconite may be ok, but all that tubing--what's with that after all that time?
Ed@BTV VT
TF 527Comment
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Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
Buy enough airplanes and sooner or later you're bound to run into one of these scam artists. There are plenty of them out there waiting for the uninformed with cash in their pocket. BEWARE!Last edited by CraigH; 10-06-2005, 08:28.Craig Helm
Prior owner N8ZU '90 F21B
KRPHComment
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Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
Originally posted by CraigH
Anyone know of a non-inflamatory way of letting others know of this person? It would have to be couched in a manner that others would read between the lines. And it would have to be truthful. Such as "potential buyers should insure well in advance full access will be granted during any pre-purchase inspection. Heed all recommended precautions prior to purchasing (i.e. title search, liens, etc.)" - MikeMike Horowitz
Falls Church, Va
BC-12D, N5188M
TF - 14954Comment
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Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
Posting here on the website is a start. Send an e-mail to Barnstormers to give them a heads up, that might help.Steve
NC96855
Some assembly requiredComment
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Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
Just drop it Mike.
It has always been and will always be, "buyer beware."
I went in thinking my eyes were wide open, and got bonked pretty good.
Still learnin' how bad I did three years later.
Sounds like the guy won't be going away any time soon either.
Jack D
N44057Comment
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Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
Any suggestions on how to avoid what happened? What bit you?- MikeOriginally posted by hangarb7Mike Horowitz
Falls Church, Va
BC-12D, N5188M
TF - 14954Comment
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Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
Word of mouth is the best way. Aviation is a small community. Mess with enough people and word gets around. Just ask my neighbor in LaGrange.
(Sorry Rob, couldn't resist).
There will always be those who try to take advantage of the uninformed, and will always be those who are taken advantage of. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. Experience is a pretty good teacher and I've certainly been taught a lesson or two myself. When you run into one of these guys, simply walk away and find another airplane. This guy was firing off warning flares all over the place.Craig Helm
Prior owner N8ZU '90 F21B
KRPHComment
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Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
All of this is true, but many are reading these postings but will get starry-eyed when they see the plane of their dreams.
In my case, it was the plane I always wanted, from a friend who had it for many years, and the price was exactly what I could afford.
But he and his mechanic were ignoring things that me and my mechanic would never ignore or accept. Their explanation? The plane hasn't fallen out of the sky in sixty years.
Anyway, I should have checked more and offered less. And walked if it wasn't low enough.
This guy is definitely laying in the weeds ready to pounce and he will succeed with some poor soul. I guess we do need to tell the world about rascals like that. Hey Mike, just think what you know now that you didn't know before your old bird and this forum!
Jack DComment
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Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!'n stuff
Somemore items got overlooked however, Mike went flying one day and still has his start over money in pocket. Thats a real good thing, way to use your nose Mike...........
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Re: Holy &*$#, Strike 3!
No problem, CraigOriginally posted by CraigH
Jack D is quite correct...sometimes we let our hearts make a purchase decision that really our brains should be making. We've probably all done it, that car, that boat, that plane, that wife (oops!)
Mike You seem to be engaging brain before heart gets involved, so listen to your brain! Well done.
RobComment
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