Hand Propping

[Floorian]

Re: Hand Propping

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". Leaving it tied down is the best way to avoid the airplane getting away from you.

Also, someone said about learning from past mistakes, whether they are others or from your own. Some time ago, I heard chat at the airport about a guy who's had several airplanes get away from him while propping them off. (Not to disrespect anyone) (Of course, I don't know the airport or location; he may not have had any way of tieing the plane down, so we can't jump to conclusions)

All in all, you should always be careful in aviation, no matter what you're doing.

[birdlegs]

Re: Hand Propping

Ken; thanks for the observation Re; mag wear, at last 100 check my AP/IA
had them apart and showed me the impulse yolk and journal assy.and schooled me on what we are looking for in the magneto's sevice life, He must have been watching me, as I come and go from the fuel pumps. I will likely refine my procedure to help the mags, longivity. Thanks to Walt Sitz @ Eagle Wings Aviation In Burns ,Oregon for covering my "6" And thanks to Ken for bringing it up again. Brad.

[Bill Fife]

Re: Hand Propping

In response to Ron's post, here's what I use for chocks:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/molded_chocks.php

I looked many years for some this good. They're sized & dished to conform to this tire's size & shape (6.00 X 6). The lower lip is just rounded enough so the tire rides up into it and sets the weight of the a/c directly on it to keep the chock from slipping away. The tire cannot roll when it's off the ground and nested in the dished concave surface of the chock this way. The military has used some more or less like this ever since W.W. I. But these are lightweight, so I can carry them with me.

Like one already suggested I have them tied together. But I use 3 ropes: one long in the middle and two short at the ends. There is one trick - getting the chocks into the airplane with the engine running. I have to be outside behind the strut to do it best, but can quickly hop in once chocks are free. I pull the strut back, slide them sideways then let the tires just roll over the ropes, pull & jump. Takes about four seconds.

Better than flinging them into the prop arc. But am still open to better ideas. And tying /untying the tail is a different matter, already covered in depth.

At lowest set idle my engine doesn't have enough power to start it rolling level, even with tires at full psi on pavement. 200 more rpm just barely changes that.

Has anyone mentioned tying back the yoke?

Bill Fife
N29885
"Powered By Lycoming"

[NC36454]

Re: Hand Propping

Has anyone mentioned tying back the yoke?

Bill Fife
N29885
"Powered By Lycoming"

Bill,
I used to tie the yoke back, but realized one day that if I or someone around the plane needed to make quick access to the mag switch or throttle, the yokes could be an obstacle. I'm not sure that tying them back would buy that much anyway...(it would make untying the tail easier though with them in the "up" position!!!)

This thread has produced many GREAT ideas and it has caused me to think of something new. Before I fly my plane again (I try to fly at least once a day...weather permitting), I will make a device that slides over the throttle shaft to prevent me bumping the throttle as I climb into the plane. Maybe a small PVC with a slot cut lengthwise????

Ken
1941 BC12-65
W4SWK

[Yellow Duck]

Re: Hand Propping

Get my two cents in: I have a set of aluminum chocks I made of 3/32 alum 7x8 inches bent the 7 inch portion 45 deg so it is 8 in long with 1/4 in hole on the end with small cord through and then in the center I have anonter piece of the same size cord long enoug to reach either door. I tie the tail down, prop from the rear, once started and warm, I make certain it is idling slow (600 rpm). Then I untie, walk to the cabin always able to hold the fuselage, once in, I can pull the chocks.I push backwards on the aircraft and make certain the hand brake is pulled. This will take pressure off the chocks and pulls out very easy. I place my chocks in the baggage compartments for my next start.

I always try to tie the tail, but there are times when nothing is available, then I use my chocks, pull the hand brakes, prop from the rear, with throttle at full idle.

When I had the old time mag switch (whih I plan to re-install), I had a short piece ow 3/4 inch webbing with a snap on one end and loop on the other. A drilled hole in the mag switch and the webbing snapped to the mag. If something happned, I could pull the mag in to the "Off" position. Works great.

[flathorn]

Re: Hand Propping

Ouch! I just started reading this hand propping thread. I really, really feel for Mike...it unfortunately reminded me of an incident two winters ago that left me dragging behind my plane on the lake ice, wondering how in the world I was ever going to get it stopped.
I hope it's okay to mention such things here, and doesn't fall under the heading of inappropriate commentary.
It's a painful situation to find yourself in, something I don't ever want to go through again. The sick feeling in your stomach is not to be believed, not knowing if you're going to be able to save your plane. Sometimes these things really just happen, no matter how much we like to think it could never happen to us (the tree I was tied off to while hand propping actually broke, which at least gave me something to hang onto after my plane knocked me down). I never thought I'd be in a situation like that... so I can't shake my head at anyone else's misfortune anymore, that's for sure.
Once you have hold of your plane, the impulse is to not let go, no matter how much the plane is working you over! I don't know how I was eventually able to kick it around so it circled back to shore, or kept from hitting the spruce it was inches from when the ski caught a log, and stopped. I lay on the snow for 5 minutes, then hobbled around for three days, extremely sore. I'm so glad I wasn't drug around on the asphalt, because I don't think I would have let go either, and was fortunate in not being around any airplanes, as Mike was.
All the tie down info is interesting. Good stuff.
So sorry, Mike... you must be pretty bummed. I was, and I only had slight damage.
Kathy
Flathorn Lake, AK
(P.S. If any of this is inappropriate for this forum, feel free to edit)

[Richard Boyer]

Re: Hand Propping

Kathy,

I for one think that was excellent information. No matter what precautions we take someone is always going to have to deal with a "trick tree". I am glad you posted this because I always wondered how I would react in this type of situation and think I would be suprised like you were to find yourself being dragged behind the plane. I have found that in odd and stressful situations we often react in ways that suprise us. There was this pick pocket on the train in Italy once........uh, different story.

This is all really good info. I am fortunate enough to have a starter on my plane and have only hand propped it a couple of times. With all the feedback (in the past) on this forum, the video by Dave Wiley and the mentorship of a good friend in England, I now have no problem (other than flooding the engine) hand propping my plane. The first time I had to do this, I REALLY wanted to go flying but my battery was dead. So.....I set the parking brake, primed the engine, shut off the fuel valve, pulled the prop through about 8 times, opened the door on the passenger side, barely cracked the throttle and armed the magnetos. BOY WAS I NERVOUS. I pulled it through a couple of time and it finally started, I was right at the door so it was easy enough to give a touch more throttle before it died. Now I was EXCITED!! I DID IT!!! I ran around to the other side got in my plane, belted in and was grinning EAR TO EAR......then the engine died.

Don't forget to turn the fuel back on.


Richard Boyer
N95791

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Hand Propping

Here at the Barber Airport , we had five handpropping incidents last night alone. Two so far this morning by 9AM. ALL went off very well. Tied, chocked, behind prop , with & without competent person in the ship, many different ways, Taylorcrafts, 2 Pietenpohls, Model A Taylorcraft, Fleet 16B, etc. just THINK out each part of the procedure.
God we do not want to go back to the Lawsuits when Taylorcraft was sued for "Producing an airplane " "that was capable of being hand-propped" holy crap which ones aren't..... I know the real high ones on floats, maybe.
Yes , I let ONE get away in 50 years..... DID not check throttle closed, in a hurry, parked uphill, no chocks. D Model could not prop with my arm in the door. SHOULD have put rope on throttle out door at least. Chocks were right there too.
BOY was I STUPID! ahhhh does that feel good. Confession is good for the soul. Nice picture Bill Berle !!

[mhorowit]

Re: Hand Propping

..., wondering how in the world I was ever going to get it stopped....The sick feeling in your stomach is not to be believed, not knowing if you're going to be able to save your plane. ...Once you have hold of your plane, the impulse is to not let go, no matter how much the plane is working you over!

Lady, did you ever capture my feelings! Add to it "Sure glad the prop wasn't any longer (as it passes over you) - Mike

[Robert Lees]

Re: Hand Propping

Forrest wrote:

handpropping incidents

I hope you mean "handpropping occurences".

[birdlegs]

Re: Hand Propping

Ken; read your piece about reaching under the H-stab assy. to untie tail........appearently not all t-carts come equiped w/ "D" handles welded to the lower longeron tubes?...... Brad

[94973]

Re: Hand Propping

Here at the Barber Airport , we had five handpropping incidents last night alone. Two so far this morning by 9AM. ALL went off very well. Tied, chocked, behind prop , with & without competent person in the ship, many different ways, Taylorcrafts, 2 Pietenpohls, Model A Taylorcraft, Fleet 16B, etc. just THINK out each part of the procedure.
God we do not want to go back to the Lawsuits when Taylorcraft was sued for "Producing an airplane " "that was capable of being hand-propped" holy crap which ones aren't..... I know the real high ones on floats, maybe.
Yes , I let ONE get away in 50 years..... DID not check throttle closed, in a hurry, parked uphill, no chocks. D Model could not prop with my arm in the door. SHOULD have put rope on throttle out door at least. Chocks were right there too.
BOY was I STUPID! ahhhh does that feel good. Confession is good for the soul. Nice picture Bill Berle !!

gotta love the lawyers

[TonyB]

Re: Hand Propping

This is a very good discussion for this "Brand New" TCraft owner. I have a '46 BC12D with a -75 engine. It doesn't always "cackle to life" very easily. Is there a set "getting ready" procedure that might help the engine fire up reliably?

I have a friend who always (very carefully) pulls 12 blades thru with the mags off before he fires up his Aeronca. He has passable success with that.

It's all new to me. A couple of times, she has started ticking on the first pull with no priming and maybe a 4 blade turnover with the mags off. A couple of other times, she just refused to start.

I should add that I live in Denver.

[crispy critter]

Re: Hand Propping

If you do not have impulse on your mags then it is always best to wait and turn your gas on just before pulling her threw.Then with mags off and throttle idle I pull her threw 12 blades(like your friend),then go hot and she is always running on the first pull(this only works when the engine is cold,they all have thier own little hot start tempers).I don't use any primer in warm weather.If she wants to kick back sometimes then you might try cracking the throttle just a very little bit AND ALWAYS MAKE SURE YOUR TAIL IS TIED!!!!

[M Towsley]

Re: Hand Propping

Tony,

With impulse mags on my A-65: First start of the day, warm weather...Throttle all the way idled, mags off, four blades. Then mags on, throttle barely cracked, starts on first pull almost every time. Hot starts on mine is throttle cracked, mags on and usually starts first time. Do not pull blades through. Mine is very susceptible to flooding when hot. Cold weather starts, after preheating, is two shots of prime, four blades, throttle cracked, mags on. This was learned through trial and error the first couple of months of ownership. Good luck!