Surprise!

[VictorBravo]

A few days ago I posted something asking about wheel and brake STC's and upgrade kits. Nobody had anything to say at all. I'm surprised, since I know that it is probably a subject that has been discussed many times over the years. I'll try again... does anyone have any knowledge or info about a Cleveland or other wheel and disc brake upgrade on the Taylorcraft?

Bill

[Robert Lees]

Re: Surprise!

Nobody had anything to say at all

I'll bite then, Bill.

There is nothing to say...Shinn wheels and brakes are perfectly satisfactory. Can you expand on why you would wany to change? Take a look at this

Rob

[NC36454]

Re: Surprise!

Bill,


BC12-D; SA4797NM Installation of Cessna rudder pedals, NM E. A. Bigby

T.C. A-696 master cylinders, and axles, aircraft Rt 1, Box 612

spruce and specialty wheel fairings, Klamath Falls, OR 97603

and Cleveland brakes and wheels.

Issued 3/22/90.

Incidentally, the info was found on this site under Technical Resources. (but I agree that Shinn brakes are not as bad as some would think)

Ken

[Don Eide]

Re: Surprise!

I didn't reply because you asked for an STC for a pre-war T-craft.
I don't know of any for pre-war T-crafts.
The STC by Mr. Bigby is for one T-craft only, (his) and it is a BC12-D.
I have heard that more than one person is working on a STC for Clevelands, but don't know if any one will include pre-war T-crafts.

I want Cleveland Wheels and Brakes and Toe Brake Pedals. I have a friend that is working on it, but working slowly.

I had a T-craft with almost NO brakes that I was doing rolling mag checks and now I want brakes.

I'm thinking seriously about pushing my T-craft project in the corner and waiting til an STC comes for CLEVELAND WHEELS & BRAKES. Period.

Don

[Richard Boyer]

Re: Surprise!

I hate to say this.....but I have an 85 on the front of my BC12D/19(ok I don't hate that part ). I have shinn brakes. I can set my brakes with those little heel pedals, run up to full power, push the stick forward and get the tail off the ground and sit there.

Having said that, it does take some leg power. If your brakes are adjusted and in good shape they are just as good as Clevelands! I have been able to do this for 4 years now.....

Quite frankly, It would be IMPOSSIBLE for me to use toe brakes in this plane. I am 6'4" and due to the angle of my "skis" I would land with clevelands applied EVERY time.

If your brakes are as bad as you say, how do you pass your annual?

Richard Boyer
N95791
Georgetown, TX

[mhorowit]

Re: Surprise!

6'4"!!
I'm 6'2" and feel cramped.
How do you manage? You comfortable? Do you have a long torso and short legs ? - Mike

[Don Eide]

Re: Surprise!

Read I "HAD" a T-craft with almost no brakes. You ask how did it pass an annual? Maybe the mechanic felt sorry for me. I Don't know. It was 1960, I was 19 years old, broke, and owned this worn out original 1946 BC12-D Taylorcraft. He said this was the last time he would sign it off. The fabric was poor, the interior was poor, the engine ran say no more, and the brakes would not hold it for a runup. I flew it about one more year before it really fell apart. I sold the T-craft and it was dismantled for parts and the "N" number is now on a helicopter.

I have just over 200 hours in airplanes with heel brakes and I HATE THEM. ALL OF THEM. I have over 21,000 hours in airplanes with toe brakes and I really like toe brakes.

I'm flying a highly modified Aeronca 7AC Champ (7DC now) and guess what, it has toe brakes with Cleveland Wheels and Brakes. I Love it.

I built a short coupled homebuilt taildragger with a 100mph approach speed and I put in toe brakes and Cleveland wheels and Brakes.

I WANT CLEVELANDS & TOE BRAKES. Period. END.

Don

[jgerard]

Re: Surprise!

Why not modify yor rudder bar to toe brakes, and still use the Shinn's. I can lock up my 8.50's and skid them on pavement no problem. Lack of brake power is not an issue with PROPERLY adjusted Shins. Get fancy with some extra pullies, longer brake cables, and fab up some toe brake pedals to mount on the stock rudder bar. I seem to have more stength at my heels, than toes. Hey guys atleast we dont have hand operated brakes like some airplanes

Jason
N43643

[Robert Lees]

Re: Surprise!

I have over 21,000 hours in airplanes with toe brakes

and probably a First Officer to apply them.

Hat...coat...

[mhorowit]

Re: Surprise!

and probably a First Officer to apply them.

Hat...coat...

(Mike grabs his newly acquired ability to embed a URL and dives under the table)

[Forrest Barber]

Re: Surprise!

Hmmmm here I sit with only 10,000 hours... I am always wondering about folks who think you need brakes to fly... BUT if you really need toe brakes, the F-21 & up all have toe brakes , Clevelands too , I did the flight tests ( make that ground tests) then we had 400 take offs & landings too! They will retro to the B models , I warn you that the toes of the left foot may be caught under the H column once in a while.... The single shot STC's are avaialble too for the C-150 installations.. e-mail me direct.

[Don Eide]

Re: Surprise!

Sorry Forest, but I don't need brakes to fly. I need them to do runups, hold short, turn in tight places, stop so I don't run into anything, like fuel pumps, hangers, your T-craft, my Champ, got the picture? I'm also VERY comfortable with toe brakes, and I hate heel brakes. Period.
I'll e-mail you.

Don

[Jim Herpst]

Re: Surprise!

OKAAY Don. Toe brakes for you. Nuffsaid that said still heel brakes for me and a whole bunch more. But what of it all ? Good luck with the Cessna Stc. Let the rest of us know when you want to sell or give those "worthless" Shinns away. We will help you out and take em of your hands ! he he

[pipsqueak]

Re: Surprise!

My brakes suck too. They seem to be getting worse too. I can hardly do a mag check anymore. I dont really want to change what I have, but want to get them working again. Has anybody had there brakes overhauled lately? Is it spendy? I have an f19 any advice will be nice. Thanks Barney

[flyguy]

Re: Surprise!

Now you guys have done it. Now I know that Shinn brakes can be made to function well I'll have to fix mine. All three of my Tcarts had terrible brakes, but I suspect that has something to do with brake maintenance being maybe the 327th item in order of importance on my list of things to do on the plane.

Question: Does anyones AI really check the brakes ---nah nevermind.

Let me see, we have an airplane here that is noisy, crowded for 2 people,difficult to get into, smells like gas most of the time, that you can't see out of, that goes totally bezerk in any turbulence, requires using the rudder all the time, will jump straight up 30 feet if hit by a gust during flare, will spin spectacularly if you get too slow, cannot legally carry a passenger even with just the center tank full (mine), will float all the way down the runway if you're too fast, will bang your head against the overhead frame in turblence, feeze your butt off in the winter, that you can't find parts for, that will try to turn around and go backwards the second you don't pay attention on rollout,and requires the tiedown and hand-prop ordeal to start: why should I be concerned if the brakes aren't perfect?
Darryl