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**1938BF50** · 11-06-2014, 10:35

Re: iPad

A year ago, I bought an I-Pad mini, foreflight and a BadElf GPS. I absolutely love it for cross country trips and crossing Lake Michigan. Knowing and being able to relay my exact track and location in case of an emergency gives me a peace of mind......along with some elevation!

**lfries** · 11-06-2014, 11:50

Re: iPad

For VFR it's all you need. If your going to use it for more than aviation you might want more than 16gb. My grandson. Has 16 and wishes he had more. I have 32gb and only have about 6gb of free space. Waiting for stratus to come down in price. Flying behind a Garmin 750 and the trfc picture is nice but not Complete and annoying around the airport.

**Scott** · 11-08-2014, 00:14

Re: iPad

I have an iPad 33GB that I've been using in my 172 for a couple of years now. I use the Fltplan.com app which provides VFR and IFR charts, approach plates, airport information etc etc.

There is a great flight planning section and you can save your routes, aircraft, W&B etc. The best feature is probably the ability to file flight plans from the app or the website. As a Canadian I cannot use Duats so the VFR filing is not available to me but IFR filing is a snap.

In the air you can bring up saved IFR or VFR charts (a key capability) for the moving map and if cell data is available it will show weather on the chart. Make sure whatever you choose will continue functioning in the absence of cell data, this is important as cell data is simply not reliable and getting less so.

the Fltplan.com app is free as are all the chart and approach plate downloads!

**Scott** · 11-08-2014, 00:14

Re: iPad

I have an iPad 33GB that I've been using in my 172 for a couple of years now. I use the Fltplan.com app which provides VFR and IFR charts, approach plates, airport information etc etc.

There is a great flight planning section and you can save your routes, aircraft, W&B etc. The best feature is probably the ability to file flight plans from the app or the website. As a Canadian I cannot use Duats so the VFR filing is not available to me but IFR filing is a snap.

In the air you can bring up saved IFR or VFR charts (a key capability) for the moving map and if cell data is available it will show weather on the chart. Make sure whatever you choose will continue functioning in the absence of cell data, this is important as cell data is simply not reliable and getting less so.

the Fltplan.com app is free as are all the chart and approach plate downloads!

**Ray36048** · 11-08-2014, 05:26

Re: iPad

First, buy an iPad that has cellular, that will give you internal GPS. I flew mine this way for about 6 mos with no issues. 16g at a min, 32g is better. I am running an app called IFLY and it is great. Not all the features of FF, but costs less. The main problem with FF is if you want ASD-B, you are locked into fewer more expensive boxes. IFLY works well with many. I have a DUAL XGPS 170 that costs $500, this is avery nice unit. Battery life on the iPad is OK for most flights. But these aviation apps shuck up a lot of battery. After about 3 hrs you will be down to about 30% power. You really need some kind of external power supply. For non electrical system aircraft, look at a unit call Jackery Giant+. For $40 you will extend the iPad about 4X. Also be aware the iPads are know for thermal power downs. They get hot and just turn off. Some say this never happens, but everyone that I know who has one will tell you they do. Sun glare on the screen is really bad, but you learn to live with it. How you mount it is also a concern. A simple leg strap seems to work OK and costs the least.

**hisoos** · 11-10-2014, 19:31

Re: iPad

Finally something I can weigh in on with a strong and somewhat knowledgeable opinion:

First of all I wouldn't buy a limiting piece of fruit. Get a real tablet that has expansion options. I recently picked up the Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 Edition with Verizon LTE built in.

The note (pen) function was not something I expected to be as beneficial as it really is. Being able to quickly jot down notes (altimeter, winds, etc) has been very handy.

I don't think I have spent more than $10 in apps. I use Avare most of the time for GPS, AFD, Plates, and Flight planning. I never thought I would have a moving map GPS in my T-craft (reference only of course).

Flight Plan GO is also very good for filing.

I recently tried out "METAM" for Metars, and used "Aviation Tools" in the past.

I am sure there are tons out there, but so far I haven't been lacking with any of the above.

The Galaxy came with 32GB of storage if memory serves me correctly (pun intended). I can easily, and more importantly, cheaply expand that to (128GB I think) with a quick trip to Wally World.

The GPS apps do work the battery, but so far I am thrilled with the battery life. Standby is amazing. I got done flying and had around 30%. Didn't use it for a week and a half and when I fired it back up it was at 26%.

All in all I am not a fan of anything Apple. You can always get something better without all of the restrictions for less, elsewhere.

Let's say you forget your power cord. Not sure if your local gas station will have an Apple approved power cord, but I bet they have a micro USB.

Don't even get me started on the Apple Store.

I said my piece. It was not my plan to start an Apple vs. Samsung battle, nor is it my intent to carry one on.

Choose wisely my friend.

**lfries** · 11-11-2014, 10:20

Re: iPad

I'm not an apple fan but I must admit I wouldn't trade my IPad Mini in the cockpit. There must be a reason why so many iPads are in cockpits vs. other tablets.

**Ray36048** · 11-11-2014, 13:04

Re: iPad

Originally posted by lfries View Post

I'm not an apple fan but I must admit I wouldn't trade my IPad Mini in the cockpit. There must be a reason why so many iPads are in cockpits vs. other tablets.

Yes, there are many iPads. I think Apple had more than a few problems with iOS 8.0 then iOS 8.1. That is one of my big concerns about all of these units into the future. I know people like Garmin test and verify the hardware and the software. But, there is no way Apple can test the apps that are running on the iPads. You see some of the aviation apps people have more trouble than others when Apple releases an update. It is only a matter of time until some IFR guy has an iPad hang up, shuts down or whatever during an approach to minimums. Also, these concerns are true for all of this consumer electronics we have in the cockpits, not limmited to the Apple stuff.

**DanBrown** · 11-13-2014, 06:31

Re: iPad

I have been using an iPad mini (no cellular) with 16GB, WingX and iLevel (GPS, ADHS and ADS-B in) for over a year. I think that WingX has is best in-flight app. The whole US charts fit easily. I have an iPhone also - the same subscription works for both, so I have a backup for charts and have completely given up on paper charts. The ipad id strapped to my leg and the iPhone is velcroed onto the panel. I have a portable transponder box with sealed gel cell batteries that gives me aux power for this combination -- gets me 7 hours of usage.

Great situational awareness. I have even gone under the hood in my Tcraft (safety pilot in the right seat), successfully navigated to airports and run practice GPS approaches down to minimums (VFR conditions) to prove to myself that it could be done in an emergency.

**TimHicks** · 11-13-2014, 10:22

Re: iPad

Thanks to everyone for all of the good feedback. This conversation has been very helpful to me.

I've heard that the newer iPad Mini 3 "Retina" display is harder to see in the cockpit that the older Mini 2. Does anyone have any real-world experience with this?

Also, below is an article that I found instructional about this debate:

Navigation app showdown: ForeFlight vs. Garmin Pilot vs. WingX : iPad Pilot News

http://ipadpilotnews.com/2012/08/navigation-app-showdown-foreflight-vs-garmin-pilot-vs-wingx/

It's the #1 question we hear: "I'm looking at the ForeFlight, Garmin and WingX apps, but I don't know which one to buy. Which is the best?" We offer a side-by-side comparison of the core features, and share some (completely biased) opinions. Read more, and add your opinion.

**Ray36048** · 11-13-2014, 11:37

Re: iPad

Mine is a mini retina. I have no experience with the older mini's. But, the main problem being able to see them is a problem with reflection. I doubt there is any difference between the two. I have used an anti reflective cover. I think it makes the iPad more difficult to use. The article is interesting, most apps give you a 30 day free trial. Some do not give you full funtion for this 30 days. The FF apps uses the most memory. They allow you to download current charts 10 days before they are active. On the active date they replace the old with the new. But, for that 10 days you need to have storage for 2X chart data. My iFly app has charts avialble 2-3 days before the date. Download over writes the old charts. I only looked at FF and the iFly, there is a guy at our airport who uses Garmin. I am sure you would find any of these apps acceptable. You need to spend many hours getting familiar with the app while you are watching TV. These iPads are a huge distration in the cockpit. They never work as well in the air while piloting as they do on the ground. I like the internal GPS. External GPS are either WiFi or Bluetooth. You can accidently tune them OFF while flying. You lose NAV and getting them to work again just increases the pilot work load. Bad Elf plugs into the iPad, lookes like it may be easy to break it off. I still like my iFly GPS app. These guys are working very hard for funtion and price. I am one of the beta testers for the app. They want input from pilots to make improvemnets and additional features. Just my 2 cents.

**lfries** · 11-13-2014, 12:14

Re: iPad

I have an older iPad mini. It bluetoothsmto my bad elf pro. No complaints once I figured out not to use mine and my grandsons bad elf at the same time. We had paired them to both our iPads. I don't use any attachment devices. It stays on my lap most of the time. If there is a reflection problem I just move it to where there is none. Easier than folding paper to keep up with where I am.

**vetdrem** · 11-13-2014, 13:07

Re: iPad

I have an Ipad 2 with the garmin pilot program. I think it is great, but when I get into my kitfox, the ipad is too big. After a lot of research, I bought a nexus 7 and downloaded the garmin pilot program to it. It is much smaller and lighter and works great. The cost compared to the ipad mini is probably what swayed my in that direction. It has the built-in gps in the wifi only model, so I don't need an external receiver. I also loaded the garmin program on my phone so I have a backup if needed. This Nexus is new to me, and I am using the 30 trial period for the garmin app, but when it runs out, I will cancel the ipad subscription and switch it to the nexus.

I like this setup so well that I sold my garmin aera 500 and am using the tablet totally.

Louie

**vetdrem** · 11-13-2014, 13:07

Re: iPad

I have an Ipad 2 with the garmin pilot program. I think it is great, but when I get into my kitfox, the ipad is too big. After a lot of research, I bought a nexus 7 and downloaded the garmin pilot program to it. It is much smaller and lighter and works great. The cost compared to the ipad mini is probably what swayed my in that direction. It has the built-in gps in the wifi only model, so I don't need an external receiver. I also loaded the garmin program on my phone so I have a backup if needed. This Nexus is new to me, and I am using the 30 trial period for the garmin app, but when it runs out, I will cancel the ipad subscription and switch it to the nexus.

I like this setup so well that I sold my garmin aera 500 and am using the tablet totally.

Louie

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