Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

[Michael]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

This is what is posted in the Ohio State Attorney General's Office website, regarding the foundation. We will never really know who owns what since there has been no filings the past 3 years. The filings tell the public how much money came in and how much money went out, and expenses. In California its called "Transparency Of An Organization."

The following was obtained from the IRS (via link from State Attorney General's Office).
Revocation Date (effective date on which organization's tax exemption was automatically revoked):
15-May-2013

Employer Identification Number (EIN):
34-1874866

Legal Name:
TAYLORCRAFT FOUNDATION

Doing Business As:
TAYLOR DOUGLAS B TTEE

Mailing Address:
13820 UNION AVE NE
ALLIANCE, OH 44601-9348
United States

Exemption Type:
501(c)(3)

Revocation Posting Date (date on which IRS posted notice of automatic revocation on IRS.gov):
12-Aug-2013

My advice:
-If you are going through a divorce, seek advice from an attorney.
-If you want to know the status of where the foundation stands as a 501(c)(3), seek advice from the IRS (status posted).
-If you want to confess your sins, seek advice from a priest.
-If you just want to have plane fun, join the EAA.

[Dennis Keels]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

If you just want to have fun ,use your EAA dues money for fuel and go flying.

[lawheelock]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

All is well in Alliance -14 F last night ... struggling with the cold . I have opened the line of communication with Jessica at the Factory and the folks at Hartford.
The following was one of many emails to Jessica & Dana

Jessica meet Dana ; you ladies may save Taylorcraft!!
Best of Luck to All..........

Jessica: , Dana & Paul Osmanski publish the Classic Aviator’s Log which is a combination of
Taylorcraft, Cub & Luscombe all fine tail draggers . The former Taylorcraft Owners Club too!!

DANA : You have been sent my thoughts in separate e-mail copy read and enjoy . Forrest TF#1.

I have been manning the phone as promised for the Foundation on Tues, Wed Thurs afternoons 330 495 5447 . Thank u for the support one and all!!
For the problem tribe members who pay no dues but use the forum for their own businesses ; THAT may come to an end .... I always wanted to allow any and all to post ; many would like that changed.

Other items : I OWN the drawings ; I paid for them and loan them to the Foundation . Mrs. Feris got the money for the spare set of drawings that did not go to Lock Haven.
For the Brit that has a problem ; those airplanes in the UK are problem children that have many issues. That was a silly idea to export them at the time.
I only try to comply with U.S. FAA standards . In the States many folks ( owners) do not maintain their aircraft in accordance with the type certificate
This has all been hashed over many times at meetings; Sun-n-Fun & Air venture ; the annual meeting in Alliance always is interesting !!

I will continue to work with the factory for a few months; planning a trip there in March. I sent them ALL the requests for parts that we compiled in the past
I am in the frozen north trying to exist ; my left leg is in a Cast.
Owners did stop by for a few parts this past two weeks.
The north half of the Airport plus Mineral right s is for sale. I had meetings with Attorneys last week ; it is interesting to listen to their evaluations of what I should do wit the rest of my life.
Call write or wire ; I AM here for the Foundation members ; tribal knowledge is a great thing. web site is changing every day. www.barberaircraft.com
More tomorrow with news from the Factory Jessica says call her with ideas ....

As to the 501 C3 the Attorneys say under 10,000 we do not file those forms . WE ARE FINE . I still issue tax credit for in kind donations more soon.
can some smarter administrator move this to the top of the heap and help me out ! Bob Ollerton ; Rob ; call please...

Forest,
If you go to Brownsville in March I would like to meet you. If you are driving to Brownsville, you will pass by my home and airport at Raymondville, an hour north of Brownsville.
I am less than 1 mile west of the southside Raymondville Walmart on FM490, Bell Airfield, XS56 on the sectional. Walmart is at the intersection of I69 (US77) and FM490. Phone (956) 689-3980 or (812)243-0942 cell.

Larry Wheelock TF671 N96179 BC12D, Stinson N584LW, Mooney N79806 A&P, IA
13289 FM 490
Raymondville, TX 78580

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~lawheelock/

[Guest]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

This is what is posted in the Ohio State Attorney General's Office website, regarding the foundation. We will never really know who owns what since there has been no filings the past 3 years. The filings tell the public how much money came in and how much money went out, and expenses. In California its called "Transparency Of An Organization."

The following was obtained from the IRS (via link from State Attorney General's Office).
Revocation Date (effective date on which organization's tax exemption was automatically revoked):
15-May-2013

Employer Identification Number (EIN):
34-1874866

Legal Name:
TAYLORCRAFT FOUNDATION

Doing Business As:
TAYLOR DOUGLAS B TTEE

Mailing Address:
13820 UNION AVE NE
ALLIANCE, OH 44601-9348
United States

Exemption Type:
501(c)(3)

Revocation Posting Date (date on which IRS posted notice of automatic revocation on IRS.gov):
12-Aug-2013

My advice:
-If you are going through a divorce, seek advice from an attorney.
-If you want to know the status of where the foundation stands as a 501(c)(3), seek advice from the IRS (status posted).
-If you want to confess your sins, seek advice from a priest.
-If you just want to have plane fun, join the EAA.

Hi Michael,

I don't doubt any of your findings.

I suspect that the 501c3 status may have little or no practical effect on us.

In other words how Forrest files his taxes probably doesn't effect me. Does that make sense (to anyone besides me)?

Dave

[Michael]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Hi Dave,
You are correct, how Forrest files his personal taxes is his business. But when you establish a foundation or any 501 (c)(3) organization. You are required and obligated to follow all the required policies and procedures, and laws that govern the non-profit organizations.But it appears that some readers want to have the foundation to continue to sustain itself, no matter who is in charge. As you read the previous posts, people have requested help from the foundation in the past and have even paid for services, like ordering copies of something with no results. That, we should be concerned with. Especially when you have people chiming in regarding their unfortunate experiences with the foundation. The foundation leadership and board members have an obligation to carry out their fiduciary duties.

I am not here to throw stones at anybody, just bringing public awareness.

[barnstmr]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Michael
Thats one big word I hadn't heard before. I had to go look that one up. So it sounds like there ought to be a clear written definition in a 501(c)(3) of the responsibilities of the leadership and of the members so that everyone should know what to expect from members, directors, etc. Maybe I missed something somewhere, but I have seen nothing written on this. It is really all about expectations.

I am a former member, because I became disappointed with expectations. But maybe my expectations and the expectations of the foundation directors are not the same. Evidently this is the whole problem.

Here's what I think was expected of ME as a member (although nothing is written).

1) money is required to be a member
2) membership is required to receive technical support/information/drawings, etc...
3) membership is not required to participate on the forum, but the foundation is in "charge" of the forum.
4) efforts should be toward the overall advancement of Taylorcraft airplanes and related things.
5) if there is anything more expected of members, I don't know what that is.

So in return, here's what I expected from the foundation (although nothing is written)
1) Membership dues should go to sustain the foundation (sustain the forum, protect the assets of the foundation)
2) When the foundation's main man says "we" have this or that available at the foundation, there should be a reasonable process for members to utilize the available item. (i.e. I would expect the item to be made available somehow, short of having to travel from Texas to Ohio to make a copy.)
3) The financial needs of the forum should be taken care of using the funds collected by membership dues.
4) Efforts should be toward the overall advancement of Taylorcraft airplanes and related things.

At least I think that #4 has been fulfilled by both sides... or maybe that's debatable.

But by observation and reading the experiences of many on this forum, it seems my expectations were not in line with reality. As it turns out, we were told that the running of the online forum is by an independent entity and not even supplied by the foundation. When there is a financial need of the forum, requests are sent for donations. If the forum is truly funded by the Foundation, then why aren't the forum's funds used. If the funds are too low, then maybe the dues should be raised. But... if they are low... why? In addition, I have observed many members try without success to buy parts or gain access to drawings/data/information. Also, I have heard rumors that the drawings and other valuable assets that are on loan to the foundation are stored in a place where they are subject to deterioration. I have wondered, doesn't the forum have funds to do something to protect these items somehow? If the Foundation is not spending funds to sustain the Forum, the drawings, the other items... what is the Foundation doing with membership dues?

The one thing (the Forum) that I really utilize as a benefit does not even come from the foundation. The rest seems to be a dead deal. I saw no point in remaining a member myself. I would re-join in a heartbeat if there was a clear understanding of the benefits... where my money goes... and some accountability.... some results. Without these things, I am lost as to what the foundation is really doing for its membership.

I enjoy Taylorcrafts. I enjoy the forum. I enjoy the camaraderie between Taylorcraft people. I am not trying to throw stones at anyone either, but if there is a Taylorcraft Forum out there somewhere in internet land... can someone please define it and hold it accountable? If so, count me in.

[crispy critter]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

I think we can all agree that one of the biggest and most desired things we could all use would be access to taylorcraft drawings and blueprints, whether it be online or copies in print available for sale or something?

If it helps any I do have the means to have all the drawings copied and digitalized for CD or Internet publish. If Forrest or the factory would trust me with them I would be happy to go get them, have them copied and return them at my own expense. I can then post the cost and accept donations for reimbursement from those who choose to help.

I'm not even sure who is in charge of the taylorcraft foundation or owner club anymore(if anyone). I feel the money for dues should be used for things such as free access to the drawings and blueprints, help support this chat forum which is currently the best source of technical support I can think of, and maybe help fund an annual fly in somewhere even if it's not a barber field in the extended future.

I'm just brain-storming a little bit here, I consider forrest friend even thou I don't see or talk with him as much as I used to. I know he's not getting younger, he has a lot on his plate, and seems that he's dealing with some unthinkable personal issues. I wish the best for him and maybe it's time for one, or some of us to offer up ourselves or services to help pass the torch. Once again, just a thought.

[Guest]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

The thing that is the most valuable is the drawings and the foundation does not own them.

Forrest owns them and he loans them to the foundation (see Forrest's prior post).

In the long term that relationship has formalized in perpetuity (another big word I thought that I throw in lol ).

Another relevant issue is the intellectual property rights associated with the drawings.

Type Certificate (TC) owner will not want to share the drawings. Back in 1982 when D. Feris owned Taylorcraft I needed a drawing from t-craft for a spar repair. Taylorcraft would not give a copy. They did assist by writing to the FAA and saying that the drawing indicated that the repair that I was proposing was according to the drawing. So my point is that even good willed TC owners do not give up drawings. So don't expect free access like Aeronca has. Those drawings were tossed out by the owner, very odd.

I am rambling, sorry, I quiet now.

Dave

[crispy critter]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Dave,
I know that Forrest owns the drawings thwt he has and loans them to the foundation. Thats why i said i would be happy to copy them if he or the factory would trust and/or allow me to do so. I would assume that whoever currently owns the factory/TC's also still has copies of all the drawings too.

Ive know Forrest for about 15 years and he has helped me many times when I first started messing around with my family's Taylorcraft(crispy critter) and I learned many things from him. Forrest can be a bit of a hard nut to crack sometimes but he is always burning the candle at boths ends usually doing things to help many folks in need.

The few times I flew up and spent the day with him it seemed that he was always being pulled in several different directions at once by several different people. I have no idea how he keeps up with it all.

I feel

[mikerice]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Just to muddy the waters, remember that most of the Type Certificates and all the build drawings and specs and some of the test data is (or was) in the possession of the "New" factory owners in Brownsville, Tx.

I spent many weeks rummaging through the file cabinets getting dwgs for the parts used in building the Taylor Sport back in 2005, so I know the drawings are extensive and to my eyes the most valuable part of the factory. The factory also had tooling to make parts and some New Old Stock (NOS) inventory. Certain items like the top cowling hinge they had none, other parts like door handles, they had hundreds if not thousands. The tooling was Tractor Trailer loads (ask me how I know!), but almost useless due to corrosion (tool steel on the Gulf Coast), and difficulty of recognition what the hell they were...

This is what the Foundation should have acquired years ago. This is what the Aeronca, Luscombe and Swift Foundations have, and it is enormously valuable to the owners and DERs who make mods to our vintage aircraft.

It may come available again some day, and will augment and in some case supplant the copies that Forrest has in his possession. Of course the plans and paper work take up room, need air-conditioning and not a lick of it is in digital format. It will not be of value sitting in someones hangar, with no one to look after the paperwork. It may also draw some FAA attention as the TC holder has certain responsibilities.

As an owners group we collectively must figure a way to do what the Aeronca and Swift groups have already done. I do not blame Forrest, as this is bigger than any one of us, but leadership and dollars would go a long way toward moving Taylorcraft documentation into the "public" domain. This is the conversation that should be happening with the factory in the future, to find out their intentions, and the possibility of acquiring the important paper assets.

[Michael]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Good points made by everybody! I do not know Forrest, but wish him the best, as he has been through a lot. What is important when you have issues like this with any organization, its's the people in charge that must truly recognize and accept that there is a problem. Without this, its business as usual, as the behavior does not change. Also its my birthday on the 20th of this month (the big 56).
Michael Perez, M.A., Retired
Masters Degree in Psychology
EAA President, Chapter 1432

[Guest]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Good points made by everybody! I do not know Forrest, but wish him the best, as he has been through a lot. What is important when you have issues like this with any organization, its's the people in charge that must truly recognize and accept that there is a problem. Without this, its business as usual, as the behavior does not change. Also its my birthday on the 20th of this month (the big 56).
Michael Perez, M.A., Retired
Masters Degree in Psychology
EAA President, Chapter 1432

Happy Birthday!

Well a bit early but I may forget.

When I was in my fifties a big heart break was that my younger friend by about 10 years didn't ask me to help him redo his roof along with the other guys because I was too old. There's a psychological conundrum to explore!

Dave

[Michael]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

LOL, I call it a blessing, when you don't get asked to do it!

[crispy critter]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Happy Birthday!

Well a bit early but I may forget.

When I was in my fifties a big heart break was that my younger friend by about 10 years didn't ask me to help him redo his roof along with the other guys because I was too old. There's a psychological conundrum to explore!

Dave

Dave,
Ive gotta put a new roof on my houseboat as soon as the weather breaks.....I'll be more then happy to let ya help! I'll even put ya up and feed ya,lol.

[robbie]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Ok when are we going to pick a team who can get to Brownsville and sit down and talk to the factory? We need to know what plans they have for Taylorcraft,would the give/sell some of or all the drawings to the foundation?
Forest said he was going down,don't know if that will happen. I understand he's trying to sell the airport, he's got health issues, personal issues. Maybe we need to step forward and try to get the foundation on solid ground again.