Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

[Guest]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Mike,
Let's please not be talking anti suing anyone please......I like to think that all of us in this nice little discussion forum are a lot better then that. I agree that something needs to be done but lets do it as a group in a civil friendly matter. I have always loved everyone here simply because everyone works together. We have had some words and heated disagreements from time to time. God knows I've been in the middle of more then one,lol. But in the end we always work it out and remain friends and work together to help each other.

With that said here's my take on it...... I have no idea who the board members are, I know Forrest was president. Also, As some of his earlier posts made clear, the plans belong to him and he loans them to the foundation. Unfortunatly he has the right to treat them however he wants, or denie them to anyone he chooses. He does allow anyone being a foundation member to come to his place and access them anytime. He has every right to do that, I dont think it's the right thing to do. Especially now with his age, legal issues, etc. if something were to happen to Forrest those drawings could possibly be gone forever.....but the fact remains they are his to do with as he chooses and he wants to burn them on his death bed there's nothing we can do about it.

I feel that a reorganization of the foundation is a good idea but it should be done willingly, with support from all including the current board members. It should not be done with force or anger.

Above all, this discussion forum should always be free for anyone with a taylorcraft question to be able to access as they can now. Use some of the money from the foundation dues and donations to assist in the upkeep. I know most folks he are taylorcraft goo roos, a few of us have a second or more aircraft. But do you know how frustrating it is to attemp access to the ballanca forum Cessna 170 forum? If you have a tech question your out of luck unless ya want to pay a $50-60 membership fee. The 170 asso. Will help you over the phone with tech advise and you can read certain parts of there forum but for anything else ya gotta join. The ballanca covers everything with the citabria, decathlon, Viking, cruisair, etc... If you don't join their club they won't ever talk to you on the phone except to tell you where and how to join their club!

The cub forum gives full access to all their drawings, blueprints, and manuals. You dont have to be a paying member. You do have to become a member il,e you would here but its free. And anyone who needs or wants to access any of the cub stuff can do it online for free!! That's how it should be. Just my two cents worth.

Hi Kevin and all,

I would like to make a suggestion regarding the red text and free access to forums.

I like forums and have joined many, some at a cost and others do not require payment.

I do not understand how or why some of them run for free. They are usually car or gun related so maybe they make it up in volume or advertising.

The airplane forums/clubs usually require payment. Sometimes payment is required to post but not to read, sometimes payment is required for both.

Being a two (ok 3 ) vintage airplane owner I desire to have access to airplane data and info. I also do not believe that there are any poor airplane owners so I also believe that any owner can afford to pay ~$50 a year for access. No one will get sympathy from me on that issue.

I think it is reasonable to require payment for at least some access and perhaps for any access but beyond that it is necessary to be able to sustain a group. For example if/when drawings or tooling becomes available or software updates must be obtained or whatever then an organization needs funds to work with. So you need a source of $$. Frankly IMHO if owners are not willing to pay for a service then they don't deserve to get it.

Dave

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Folks, there is a solution brewing. Please be patient. All will be shared and it should be fair to all. Let's just not burn the bridge down before we can get everyone across. I know this seems cryptic (it is, we just can't talk about it yet without screwing it up).

Hank

[Michael]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

I just want to be clear, I am not talking about suing anybody. I am speaking about what happens when you take over an organization that is in default of its obligations to the public. We become (newbees) liable. Been there done that. Hank, I don't know you, other than what good advice I have received from you regarding my Taylorcraft.

That said, I'am willing to trust in you after reading your post. I recommend that we all do the same folks. This is where we start building the trust among each other to further save the Taylorcraft legacy.

[N96290]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Folks, there is a solution brewing. Please be patient. All will be shared and it should be fair to all. Let's just not burn the bridge down before we can get everyone across. I know this seems cryptic (it is, we just can't talk about it yet without screwing it up).

Hank

Hmmmm I thought Hank was being too quiet. Like I said, just keep your finger off the detonator.

[crispy critter]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Well put michael, I will second that all the way...

Dave,
I agree with you to some extent. I have no problem paying a membership for certain things but I know several pilots who really can't afford to own an airplane but make certain sacrifices to be able to do so and budget themselves drastically to be able to fly it a couple hours a month. The forum itself should remain free and open for advice and social pleasure, like a public service or something and those who can and want can make donations to help with the upkeep and maybe some percentage of foundation dues make up the balance if needed. This way the folks who don't nessessarily have the extra money, credit cards, or PayPal accounts can still come online and seek tech advice from all of us folks on the forum.

However if we could ever get access to digital plans, manuals, literature, etc. Make that part available to paying members only to help encourage folks to a have a reason to join and make it more beneficial for them to do so....once again, thats just my opinion.

With that said I will drop out of this discussion thread unless someone asks me something direct and trust the guys who know more to do there thing.

Hank, if there's anything ya need, don't hesitate to call or email me off forum, or on. And if ya talk to Forrest tell him to drop me a line sometime, I think it's my turn to buy lunch because he bought the last I seen him.

[barnstmr]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Folks, there is a solution brewing. Please be patient. All will be shared and it should be fair to all. Let's just not burn the bridge down before we can get everyone across. I know this seems cryptic (it is, we just can't talk about it yet without screwing it up). Hank

Hank, about your quote in red text above... Let's see where have we heard this before?... Obama? Pelosi? Barber? To me, a foundation should have leaders who are acting in the interest of its members with input from its members. The "keep quiet - we'll all find out what's in store after it is law" model has not been working lately. Thats the main reason I am no longer a member. Let's see.. how many members are currently paid up and active. Does anyone know? It seems like there's a lot of former members who are like me.... willing to pay their dues if there was any real definition and any real benefits. I guess since I am not one of them perhaps my 2 cents does not count. But since we do have this forum and since non-members are still allowed "in" I am going to put in my thoughts.

I am with Tom Baker who stated "The biggest problem I see is getting a line of communication established." All of the tools are here... the Forum is an excellent way to share information. There is an active following by many. I believe if those who are "brewing up a solution" would share their ideas while they are "brewing", this would seem more like a "Foundation" and Less like a money pit. Honestly, that's what's holding me back from paying my foundation dues. I am 100% ready to join if the leadership can keep us informed and follow through with claims of benefits.

There is another bit about expectations that needs to be addressed. I sense that most agree that one of the main missions of the foundation should be to disseminate technical information. But only if that information is not proprietary. One fact we all need to face is that the data for the B-series airplanes is rightfully owned by the TC holder. Any copies shared by Forrest or any one else without permission from the TC holder is not rightfully allowed by the FAA as approved data (or at least shouldn't be if they follow their own regulations). So if all of the Foundation members would just accept this is how it is for now, we might all be happier. Short of having the rights to this data, as a type club, we need to help each other by our tribal knowledge and aviation expertise. If at some point there can be an agreement with the TC holder, great. But nobody should pretend to have any rights to their data until then.

That's my 2 cents.

[M Towsley]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Terry,

Hank is not Obama, Pelosi or Forrest.

This overall problem has been going on for quite some time. I don't think waiting a little while is going to hurt anything or anyone. I know Hank fairly well and got to meet him last year when my wife and I vacationed in the Virginia Beach area. I am a good judge of character and have no problem with anything he says. Please don't compare our current government with the Foundation or Hank. That just incites people into making quick, possibly poor, decisions. I have run into the same problems you have with the 'Foundation', et al., and I have great faith in Hank and any endeavors he is looking into. Knowing Hank it will be for the benefit of all of us.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

This is NOT a case of everyone finding out after "it" is in place. No one will be obligated to anything or committed to support anything. We will present our idea as soon as we have the pieces in place and everyone will be able to accept or reject the process then, but a lot of infighting can really slow the process. The "solution" is obligating a few people who will be GIVING it to the Taylorcraft owners, then you guys will be able to decide if you want it.
The difference is the people doing this are people who have earned the trust of the members. We aren't the foundation (but some of us are in it) we are not the club (but some of us are in it), we aren't the newsletter.....OK, you get the idea. We ARE almost ALL folks who you guys know and I think trust. Every one of us si dedicated to Taylorcrafts and keeping them flying. No one is going to be shut out. This isn't a coup d'état on anyone.
I am not saying any more.

Hank

[barnstmr]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Hank, I incorrectly assumed you were passing on a "wait and see" sentiment from Forrest and the Foundation leadership. So I was not directing my comparisons toward you. They were directed at the current Foundation leadership. I apologize if it appeared that I was dissing you. I certainly was not and did not intend for anyone to get that idea. So please accept my apology. I will be glad to help in any way I can.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Wasn't taken that way. Forrest is and will be involved, but this is not his project. He will ALWAYS be a part of Taylorcraft, but this project is not his. You are also one of the people on the list to be a potential part of this, but your part isn't there yet. Even Forrest wasn't contacted until today, and he doesn't know what is going on yet either. Several projects need to dove tail together at the same time and we are waiting for a critical piece.

Hank

[robbie]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Ok, Hank,I'm standing down,waiting for the word. Being 15 miles from Oshkosh any thing needed from them I'm willing to do or help.

[Michael]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

How cool Robbie, only a few minutes from Osh. BBQ at your house for Taylorcraft people during AirVenture? I would be glad to do psychological assessments of Taylorcraft owners, as my contribution to the cause. Since I do not have the expertise of Taylorcrafts.

[barnstmr]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

The plot thickens with surprising news from TOC via email this evening.

[Guest]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

The plot thickens with surprising news from TOC via email this evening.

Terry,

Can you say more? What is this news?

Dave

[dalijohn]

Re: Forrest Life and the Taylorcraft Foundation

Hank,

Email sent.