N44051 might be in my future...

[Silas]

Hello all,

I'm looking at buying a BC-12D, N44051, ser no 9851. The paperwork needs some attention but she looks nice in her Civil Air Patrol livery. Has a 20 hour 65hp Continental. Wired for lights in the 60s, but the air-generator was removed when the fuselage was recovered in the 90s. Wings in Grade A cotton in 1987, fuselage in Stits in 1990.

Please send your comments, concerns, encouragement or whatever! I'm looking forward to learning from all you on the forum as it's already been a great source of information.

[ajfriz]

Re: N44051 might be in my future...

I'd suggest a very thorough pre buy. Cotton isn't known for longevity, and any paperwork issues can become MAJOR problems down the road. I know of a very pretty (pretty probably isn't the correct word to describe a flying milk stool ) PA22 that is literally worthless from the undocumented/illegal repairs. It supposedly had "minor" paperwork issues. I know the new owner wishes he had a better pre buy done.

[Silas]

Re: N44051 might be in my future...

Already starting the thorough pre-buy. There's two 337s that weren't done by a previous owner (the Stits fuselage and removal of generator). And there's some recent engine paperwork we're trying to track down. Fingers crossed.

When you say cotton doesn't last long, what are we talking about? The plane has been hangared since recovering and we expect it to pass the inspection.

[ajfriz]

Re: N44051 might be in my future...

That's great that you're getting a good pre buy. Too many people don't do that and end up regretting their purchase.

The main reason people stopped covering with cotton is because it doesn't last as long as Dacron fabric. It wasn't uncommon for these airplanes to get covered every few years. Being hangared definitely helps, but I'd be pretty nervous about cotton that old. That being said, I think cotton looks better than just about any other process.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: N44051 might be in my future...

I am a long time cotton lover. What you are being told is really true. There was a Cub I knew that was covered in Grade A and it was at LEAST 50 years old and still punched good. The way it was taken care of I have no doubt it will be good for another 50,......BUT, the plane was kept in INCREDIBLE condition!

It isn't just being outside that kills cotton, humidity, insects and rodents can do a REAL number on it. High humidity can allow mold to grow on the inside surface where you can't see it and weaken the fabric. Storage in a hot hangar for decades will deteriorate it. Rodent urine can DESTROY the fabric and metal and not show up outside, and rodents don't hang our close to the inspection holes where you can look for their damage easily. If I could do it I would love to use Grade A and dope and recover every few years, but it isn't practical any more.

I wouldn't reject this plane because of the cotton, but I would plan on recovering the cotton areas in a few years.

As for the paperwork, bad paper will ground you as hard as a crash. If the paper isn't right to the point YOUR A&P/IA will continue to sign it off, DON'T buy it. All of the discrepancies in condition and paper YOUR IA wants have to be corrected BEFORE you buy.

Hank

[otrcman]

Re: N44051 might be in my future...

As much as I like the appearance and working properties of cotton, I'm another vote to be very aware of it's limitations.

Others have commented on cotton's vulnerability to sunlight, mildew, rodents, etc. But here is another concern that's not often mentioned. The manufacture or storage of dope can result in a high acidity level. In the old days, dope was tested to be sure that its pH was within specific limits to ensure that it would not attack the cotton fabric. That factor is no longer important in the era of synthetic fabrics, so it doesn't get the attention that it once did. It is possible to purchase newly manufactured dope which does not meet the acid content limitations necessary for use on cotton. Even if the dope is only mildly out of spec, it can shorten the life of an otherwise carefully maintained cover job.

For more factual reading on this subject, see FAA manual AC 43.13-1B, Chapter 2, paragraph 2-20b.

Dick

[NC43501]

Re: N44051 might be in my future...

I've flown that Taylorcraft, it was based a couple hangars down from me some years ago. Back then it was the cleanest, and most well cared for Tcart I'd ever had the pleasure to fly. The owner was very meticulous, and put a great deal of effort into the plane. When he sold it some years ago I was sad to see it go. I haven't seen it in more than a decade, so I have no idea what it's been through in the intervening years, but I would have jumped at the chance to buy it back then. Just out of curiosity, does it still have the original wheel pants?

[Silas]

Re: N44051 might be in my future...

What a wealth of great information! Thank you!!

Anthony,
I think it's only had one other owner since you flew it. Was that owner the one who had it recovered and painted red/black with CAP markings? Still beautiful and the wheel pants were removed, but still around. I poked a flashlight into the tunnel and there's hardly a cobweb in there. Haven't peered into the wings yet.

I'm crossing my fingers that the engine paperwork shows up. The inspecting IA should be able to handle the missing 337s fairly "easily".

[NC43501]

Re: N44051 might be in my future...

Yep, him and his dad put some awful pretty airplanes together. I don't remember him ever flying it with the real wheel pants on, he had a pair of nice fiberglass one for general flying around (kept the real ones hanging in the up in the hangar). I remember that engine being about the easiest engine to hand prop, always started with just the lightest flick. In fact, he taught me how to hand prop on that plane, just before I bought mine. The wiring for the lights used to come into the cabin, where you could hook them up to a portable battery for limited night flying. I believe he had a landing light in the wing? I think all it was good for (time wise) was "squeezing" just bit more flight time out past sunset, I can't imagine that battery lasted long. '051 has been on the cover of more than one magazine, I'll see if I can dig up a copy. At one time I used it as a model in one of my three view drawings, I'll see if I can find it.

Here's some pictures I found on a quick search of the hard drive:






Looks like I only finished a side view: