Fatal taylorcraft accident??...

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Fatal taylorcraft accident??...

I think that creating scenarios that "could" have happened is very productive for the rest of us to improve our safety. Thinking about the "What ifs" will always make you safer.
What we need to be careful NOT to do is say what we think actually happened in the accident. There is no way for us to know without all the facts, which we aren't going to get. Making any statement that an insurance representative can latch on to as "fact" from the "guys who know the plane the best" will only make problems for the the investigators and families of the victims.
We need to propose scenarios and discuss them, but please do NOT make statements that could be taken out of context as being facts from any accident (I don't think we do, but read your posts like a lawyer trying to get out of an insurance payment before you hit send). Unsubstantiated theories from those without all the facts always seems to cause problems later for the investigators and families.

Hank

[jim cooper]

Re: Fatal taylorcraft accident??...

I don't think ANY insurance agent or FAA type would lend much credence to ANYTHING discussed on this site or any other like it. I further offer that anyone writing their opinion on this site is free to speculate about this or any other accident without fear of retribution. As far as I can discern, the FAA or an insurance company would only reacha decision after they investigate in a thorough manner, not by reading this site or others like it. They would be foolish to do otherwise. I hope in this case they will perform an autopsy to rule out or prove health concerns as they did in the case of the airline pilot in the T craft not so long ago. After the 777 accident I immediately said to my wife , "too low, too slow". I also sent this to several fellow pilots by E mail. I doubt that the FAA would be impressed by my findings. Personally I have never read an entry on this site where anyone said they knew for sure what happened. I sure as hell don't! Best JC

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: Fatal taylorcraft accident??...

You miss what I am saying. I AGREE that no one from the FAA, NTSB or the insurance companies would put any weight to what we say here (unless it struck a chord with them when combined with information they already had...yea, it does happen), but the LAWYERS for an insurance company will use ANYTHING they can dig up to try to deny a claim. If they could quote a statement from Yosemite Sam that could get them out of paying they would try to push it in court. It is THEIR JOB to reduce what the insurance companies pay, and if they can use the ignorance of a Judge or jury they will do it.

How many times have "facts" that had NOTHING to do with an accident caused an insurance payment to at least be delayed? We just need to be careful about saying we "know" what happened, or suggesting things that could be used to delay payment so the investigators can "take time to prove it wasn't a cause". I can tell you I have personally had to do investigations of "suspected causes" that I, and everyone on the investigation team, KNEW could not have had anything to do with a crash or loss, because someone who didn't know the details of an accident "suggested" that it could have been a contributor to the accident. They don't just grab hold of ideas from "experts".

There is no retribution involved here. We all speak freely, and should. We just should all be careful about presenting conclusions that could be misused, and the best way to do that is to not apply them to a specific accident we don't really have verifiable information on.

Hank

[jim cooper]

Re: Fatal taylorcraft accident??...

I don't miss ANYTHING your saying. YOU are jumping to a conclusion. I simply say that anyone on site can voice their opinion as of what might have happened and they have. I haven't read anyone's opinion that would sway either an attorney or a so called expert investigator. In fact many of accident reports I have read seem to be written by "experts"who never actually visited the crash site. Best, Sum Ting Wong.

[Dalton]

Re: Fatal taylorcraft accident??...

Jerry Zerbe was a close personal friend of mine for the past twenty years.I can tell you that he was a tireless promoter of aviation and flight safety. Folks around our airport will miss him for many years to come. Jerry probably taught hundreds of people to fly and I'll bet not one would ever say he did anything that was unsafe in an airplane,like pulling the throttle back on final. Some here have "jumped to the conclusion" that he shouldn't have been giving instruction because of his age ,You would be hard pressed to find many fifty year olds that could keep up with Jerry,he played handball every thurs.and walked 18 holes on tues.Most of the time he could be found at the airport leading a group restoring an aeronca he had.Please allow the dust to settle and let what facts there may be come out. One thing is for sure, something happened that day totally out of the ordinary. but I really doubt it had anything to do with age

[crispy critter]

Re: Fatal taylorcraft accident??...

I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend dalton. I hope they can find a cause to give better closure. The guy who was telling me about it was also a close friend to Jerry and had nothing but the best to say about him. Wish I could have known him.

Also, I'm very sorry if the thread that I started has caused any disrespect or hard feelings in any way, that was not my intention. Let us know if there's anything we can do.

[exp2ex]

Re: Fatal taylorcraft accident??...

Sounds like an amazing guy. I love the old school types that just don't fly the birds but also get their hands dirty. Full of wisdom, experience and I am sure a zillion great stories all of which we as a community not only love but will truly miss.

I have been involved in a few accident investigations over the years and one thing for sure. If you were not there in the cockpit looking at the instruments with hands on the throttle/stick, there is a good chance we will never know exactlly what happened.

One thing is for sure. The Aviation community has lost a Giant and has lost a Newbee both of whom shared a desire to fly like the eagle, to experience the gift of flight. And a Gift it is indeed.

I pray that God would comfort the families and friends in this time.

[Dalton]

Re: Fatal taylorcraft accident??...

Thanks to all for the kind words and thoughts,I,m not offended in any way,just need a little time to digest it all.I think a healthy discussion is good if we can learn from it,My friend would be the first one to want to know,and to pass it along to others so that they could learn from it too.My only thought is just to try to get all the information and then try to make some sense of it all..... thanks again,......Mike

[Bird]

Re: Fatal taylorcraft accident??...

I was wondering, just a little while ago another taylorcraft (warbird?) had an accident, I know you guys know about it because I pointed it out on the slavage sale-but it also went in almost vertical, could there be a connection?

[M Towsley]

Re: Fatal taylorcraft accident??...

This is the one you are talking about, an excerpt from the incident, July 16, 2011 in Michigan: The airplane's altitude was between 50 - 75 feet above ground level. The airplane entered a steep left turn, and then spun 180 degrees as the airplane impacted the street in a nearly vertical, nose down attitude.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20110716X31225&key=1

I find it strange it has taken two years and still no final report.

[M Towsley]

Re: Fatal taylorcraft accident??...

Initial NTSB report: http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...17X71905&key=1