Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

[barnstmr]

After 4 installations in developing our Kit, we finally have everything together here at Certified Aeronautical Products, LLC.

Click Here for more information about FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft

[Bird]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

I can't get the information page to display for some reason

[Dick Smith]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

Try this: http://dc65stc.blogspot.com/2016/06/...ve-wheels.html

[PA1195]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

Nice thing about these parts is that the brakes and plumbing can be left intact when some skis are installed. Remove the wheel assemblies, slide the skis (I have Aero 2000's) on the axle adapter, adjust the end nut to ski pedestal clearance with washers, and put a spacer the same thickness as the brake rotor (I use a piece of UHMW polyethylene plastic) between the brake pads to keep them retracted. No opening or later bleeding of the hydraulics required.

Gary

[N96337]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

Waaaaay too rich for my blood! I figured about half that price. I guess I'll just go with AC23-27 and do my own.

[cvavon]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

In January 2010 i used the same exact parts bought from grove to have dependable brakes on my airplane.The field approval has been posted on this site since then for everyone to use for FREE!!!!!!!.As far as all the hipe about these new brakes is old news as Mr Grove and I went threw this in 2010 when i did the instillation on my plane i did use different master cylenders but every other thing is the same.Now i know of 4 other people that have done this conversion using my Field approval and AC 23-27 for approved data and got it done for a lot less money

[PA1195]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

My installation was done by/for the previous owner and essentially duplicates the OP's components...Grove pull cylinders in a horizontal configuration attached to the existing brake pedals and frame.

I'll offer a 337 when my logs return from my maintenance shop. I don't know the earlier cost of the setup but if a local Field Approval is not available this is an alternative. I'm not here to compete with CAP.

Edit: To clarify by using the phrase "this is an alternative" I meant CAP's current kit, not the Field Approval I have. As noted below by CAP, some of the components have been superseded. The mod makes for a balanced brake system with quality parts and a simple installation. Large bush-type tire STCs typically require that heavy duty brakes and load rated wheel assemblies be installed under a separate approval. Not sure if OEM stuff meets that requirement. It's adaptability to skis is excellent as I noted previously.

Gary

[barnstmr]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

Chuck,
You and I are good friends and I've seen your airplane and think it is really nice. You did an outstanding job with the restoration. I don't look to criticize your Grove wheel and brake installation, but I think your characterization of the parts you installed and your prices is wrong. They are not the exact same parts. Today, you cannot buy the same parts from Grove as you installed on your airplane. The wheels and the calipers are very different physically and cost-wise. Here's my research.

2010 Installation p/n 61-138 NO LONGER AVAILABLE - $1,490.00 (Grove List Price in 2010)
Wheel Assy p/n 61-1A
Caliper Assy p/n 33-1A


2016 Installation p/n 61-1002 TSO Approved - $ 2,236.25 (Grove / CAP List Price)
Wheel Assy p/n 61-1001C
Caliper Assy 29-1007A

THOSE PRICES DO NOT INCLUDE THE AXLE SLEEVES, PRESS CAP, HUB CAPS, HARDWARE CYLINDERS, FITTINGS, HOSES, OR PAPERWORK. There are a LOT of other parts to the installation. One of the BIG differences is the cylinders we include vs. the Cub style cylinders you used.

Pair, Scott (Cub style) p/n 1248H/1206H $1,200.00 (currently available on ebay USED/REBUILT Buy it now)
Pair,Scott (Cub Style) p/n 1248H/1206H $ 1,997.64 (current price Aircraft Spruce NEW)

Pair, Pull-type master cylinders p/n 681-2 $ 558.00 (Grove / CAP List Price)

The difference between the major components between CAP vs. yours is $ 83.97 ***more for CAP's kit*** (considering the Rebuilt cylinders on ebay) or $ 713.71 ***more for yours*** (considering the NEW cylinders from Aircraft Spruce). That is just considering the major components. See the photo herein to get an idea of the real cost of an entire turn-key kit.

Now, Chuck - On FB you claimed your entire installation was $1,300.00 or at least that's how your posting came across. I fail to see how, unless you had a bunch of used parts already on hand and paid nothing for many items, Maybe you forgot to include all of the hardware and hose assemblies. Please think back and set the record straight. Be honest, parts these days (even nuts and bolts) are expensive.

The CAP system is our best effort to offer and ALL NEW - FAA APPROVED kit to the Taylorcraft fleet. As time marches on and as Shins continue becoming more worn, the ALL-NEW concept will become more meaningful. We made our best effort to take care of each and every piece of hardware and all paperwork. We made our best effort to ensure the installation gives the pilot NO Change in the operation. Our kit retains the original heel brake set-up which was a big deal to me. In my opinion, I don't really like your Scott master cylinder set-up. But that's my opinion. Some may disagree.

The kit is not for every owner. This is not a cheap kit. I think, though when you take a look at what CAP provides in this kit, you will see that it is a real value and you'd be hard-pressed to find a better turn-key package-kit anywhere else.


*********************************

Introductory Sale Price

$ 4,399.90

PLUS SHIPPING

(Until August 15, 2016)

*********************************

[cvavon]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

Ok let's set this strait the wheel kit from grovr was $1258.00 with shipping (see invoice) the scott masters were bought off Ebay and were $257.00 the air craft gread hoses were $84.00 and the small hardware another $15.00 for a grand total of $1614.00 a long way from $4399.90

[astjp2]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

You have obviously not bought any TSO's Clevelands lately.....expect $3k or more for some models that fit Cessna's and Cub's, just for the wheels.....Tim

Waaaaay too rich for my blood! I figured about half that price. I guess I'll just go with AC23-27 and do my own.

[Guest]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

One can always do it his or her self for less money.

I don't think that should be disputed.

Usually DIY efforts take a bit longer and requires more planning. Especially since all the used components needed for the lower cost installation are usually not available simultaneously so they have to be accumulated over time.

Terry is providing a turn key complete installation with paperwork that requires no effort other than money. That usually costs more but is streamlined. It all depends on what you want. A mechanic or a restorer may choose the "DIY" path an owner that just wants it done now will chose to throw money at it.

Neither approach is wrong just different and meeting different needs.

I don't follow why we want to throw Terry's offering under the bus. If it does not suit your needs don't buy it.

If you have another option to advertise be courteous to Terry and create you own post rather than ragging on his. I am sorrowful that you guys are raining on his parade.

We want factory and technical support, to get that you have to pay, griping on Terry won't result in more support.

Dave

[skip]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

Wow!

I mean... Wow!...

Most everyone here really seems to appreciate the wonderful little airplane created by C.G Taylor. Most everyone here seems to curse the black hole into which Taylorcraft inc seems to have vanished along with any hope of certified parts. Most everyone here seems to wish there were better FAA approved upgrade paths for our wonderful little flying machines.

So here comes Terry, adding to his STC for engine upgrades and his deep experience as a DER with a turn-key solution for one of the stickiest problems for the Taylorcraft: modern brakes.

And what is the reaction? Costs too much. I did a field approval. The raw cost of my parts was less than your turn-key approved kit.

Well guys, I am in an FAA region where field approvals are lost into a hole much like Taylorcraft inc has gone into. At some point I want to put some larger back country wheels onto my plane. At the moment, I know how to properly adjust my Shinns, and they will hold me on not just a mag check, but a full static RPM check. But someday I want to go to some bigger wheels and I will gladly pay Terry for the privilege of not having to deal with my local FAA FSDO for a field approval for some modern brakes. I think that his kit is cheap compared to the costs I have seen trying to do a DIY solution.

For those of you who go the DIY route: Good for you! Post a new thread and let us know of your experiences. I salute and admire you. I do a lot of DIY stuff myself.

But to knock Terry for his efforts because you did a one-off cheaper at some point, well This is one of the few times I have been ashamed to be a part of this discussion group.

Thank you Terry for your hard and valuable work. I, at least, really appreciate what you have done for the Taylorcraft community. And sometime soon when the time is right I will back that up with a purchase.

[kona4breakfast]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

Price point seems to fit his customer base. Small market for Tcarts, smaller still for those who won't be able to go the 337 route. Only way to get a return on his investment from a niche market.

[PA1195]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

I have more expense in mods on my Taylorcraft than a typically standard plane is worth, if asking prices for current airworthy examples are any indication. So when a great improvement like this kit is offered the question ultimately becomes is it worth it? Some owners want the improved safety and utility...others aren't able or willing to pay for it...cost<>benefit stuff.

Being able to buy and fly versus the long iffy road to approval is a fact we face more and more.

Edit: I should add that I mean no disrespect those desiring and flying authentic versions. The standard plane is very desirable and has served many very well for 70 some years (I'm owner #33). It's when the platform is used in atypical circumstances and climates that the changes can offer increased safety and utility.

Gary

[N96337]

Re: Announcing: FAA-TSO Approved Grove Wheels & Brakes for Taylorcraft.

You have obviously not bought any TSO's Clevelands lately.....expect $3k or more for some models that fit Cessna's and Cub's, just for the wheels.....Tim

Well these aint Clevelands and we're not dealing with a 185. How about comparing apples to apples? If you look at Grove's site, you'll notice the Cub wheels/calipers are not quite so high... http://www.groveaircraft.com/28-4001-4002.html

Obviously you all have a bunch more expendable income than I do. I can't see where all this "value" is derived. I know what it is all about to obtain an STC (which he doesn't have), but in my mind the money isn't there in this installation. My opinion...obviously yours is different. For a couple grand difference, I don't mind filling out a 337. Like I said...MY opinion.