New on Barnstormers

[skip]

Anyone know anything about this plane? I have a friend who has been watching me rebuild my wings and is interested in joining the tribe.

http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=809047

Skip Egdorf
TF#895
N34237 BC12-D sn 7700

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: New on Barnstormers

I can tell you one thing, it is NOT a 46. It is a 1941 BC 12-65 Deluxe. Looks like a NICE one from the pictures!

Hank

[mike lutz]

Re: New on Barnstormers

Is that a J-3 exhaust system in the last pict. ?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: New on Barnstormers

Could be. It is NOT a standard 41 exhaust. If it has papers, the muffler and design is MUCH better than stock. Looks like it comes apart with out having to take the engine and mount off.

Hank

[skip]

Re: New on Barnstormers

I can tell you one thing, it is NOT a 46. It is a 1941 BC 12-65 Deluxe. Looks like a NICE one from the pictures!

Hank

Hank,

Thanks for the observation!
Not arguing at all, but I am curious. What do you look at in telling that it is a '41 and not one of the few '46 BC12D deluxes that were (supposedly) delivered??? This is one of those areas where I have never learned which details to examine to differentiate. My only differentiation would be to look into the wings to see if there are truss ribs as opposed to stamped.

Eager to learn...
Skip Egdorf

[NC36061]

Re: New on Barnstormers

What do you look at in telling that it is a '41 and not one of the few '46 BC12D deluxes that were (supposedly) delivered???

My only differentiation would be to look into the wings to see if there are truss ribs as opposed to stamped.

-trim strip extends along the boot cowl and door to the door handle... the pictures I've seen of the post-war deluxe don't show those trim pieces being used.

-two-piece instrument panel and "banjo" yokes ... '41-'42 Deluxe only

-rear "D" windows, correct prewar Deluxe configuration

-original pre-war Model B type vertical fin and rudder

-short span, wide chord trim tab set in left elevator, again '41-'42 Deluxe only

Wing rib type is not conclusive, truss ribs were used post-war until the supply was gone, then stamped ribs were used. Any B model could use either type rib, I've seen pre-wars with stamped ribs and late post-wars with truss ribs, even wings with both type ribs...

There can be absolutely no debate that the '41-'42 Deluxe is the very best Taylorcraft ever built your friend would be lucky to get her if she checks out ok.

Dave

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: New on Barnstormers

Dave beat me to the punch on every item....and I agree, BEST version of the "T" ever built!

Hank
NC-36296

By two-piece instrument panel he means that the actual instruments are mounted on a shock panel and the "metal" over the top is only a false front. The insert over the center cluster and the glove box doors were normally Faux wood grained. Looks really nice, but a PAIN to work on. Lucky it is a fairly simple panel and pretty robust. Once it is all working, you will never need to mess with it.
If you REALLY want to nit-pick, there should be a big compass at the top center of the windscreen instead of the one on the glare shield, but they are REALLY RARE (read EXPENSIVE!). I can't tell form the photo if it still has the 6:00 altimeter. Looks like it does, and they are getting pretty hard to find too (should be a sensitive one, the non sensitive ones are pretty common) The panel has also been retrofitted with a post war mag switch, which is getting pretty rare and very expensive too. The originals are almost totally non-existant, but I found a way to replicate one with a modern mag switch. You can sell the one there for enough to update the whole panel (except that big compass). The two large instrument holes between the wheels and the mag switch were usually a ROC and an ash tray (go figure, smoking in a tube and rag plane with 12 gal of gas over your knees!). Many had a T&B in place of the ash tray and the original ash trays are pretty hard to find (I have only ever seen one....I should have bought it!)
The panel is actually a really nice one and perfectly functional...unless your are totally anal about originality, and everything there can be made "like factory new" with a little patience.

One other little thing, there is a screw hidden under the "wings" under the mag switch. IF it is still there, you can bend the panel up pretty bad if you don't know to remove it! Be careful with the glove box door handles. We don't have the mold for new ones ready yet. Don't break them. they are old and brittle!

[M Towsley]

Re: New on Barnstormers

You would think after such a recent restoration they could have gotten the diamond and stripe close to being right.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: New on Barnstormers

Yea, well, er, kinda, aaaaaaaa. Except that it isn't the right color layout for a 41 Deluxe. The Deluxe was an over and under two tone with a thin trim strip between them.
NOT a big deal unless you are a bit anal. The 41 Deluxe is STILL a great plane, you just need to do a bit of a color overshoot to get the colors right if you want to go all the way.

Hank

[stearman3]

Re: New on Barnstormers

Hank, you said the mag switches are quite scarce, and they are. I discovered a source for them.

Have look at Air Repair Inc. He sells all the parts to make /refurb the A7 switch.

It's probably expensive but it looks like stuff is available.

I don't remember if they are listed under the Stearman parts or a stand alone listing.

[M Towsley]

Re: New on Barnstormers

Hank, I know that it is the incorrect scheme but they couldn't even get the incorrect scheme right.

Here is the link to the A7 switch info: http://www.airrepairinc.com/a7-switch.html

[VanDy]

Re: New on Barnstormers

Werent there a few pre-wars that were half finished and placed in storage until production after the war resumed? Is it possible this could be one of them?

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: New on Barnstormers

My 45 IS one of those. It was built with a 1010 steel fuselage from before the war (even has marks on the tubes where there may have been a tube for the flipper). The wings have stamped sheet metal ribs, but they are NOT the kind everyone else has. When I sent a Polaroid (remember those?) to Forrest he said they were the ORIGINAL hand made sheet metal ribs developed during the war. All the ones on later planes were made on a "Hydra-form press". Several were damaged on my plane and I have to make a wood buck and hand form replacements.

From what history I could find Taylorcraft built two "prototype" 45 Deluxe planes that were kept by the factory well into 46. They put modifications on them to test for production. That would explain why my 45 has an unusual twin side by side triangle skylights that were VERY complex and never made it into production. The wood frames have the same burn marks on the wood as the stringers and wood trim pieces from a dull table saw blade. Those same burn marks were on the wood trim tab. According to what I found, mine was sold in the summer of 46 as a 46 (which caused a LOT of problems with registration). There were actually two prototypes and I finally found the other one. I was amazed when I found it in a hangar on the same airport where I was! Unfortunately, it had been "restored" several times, and since the papers showed it was a 46, the restorers were going to use 46 parts no matter HOW BIG a hammer it took to make them fit. A big one is the engine mount on those first two held the engine at a slightly different height from the production planes. The cowl was formed on an English Wheel and is NOT the same shape as later plane. You can barely see it, but there is a different curve to the bottom of the cowl. The second prototype had a standard engine mount and the cowl had been butchered to MAKE it fit. All in all, it was pretty useless to help my finish mine. I wish I could have gotten the wings. There were still several original ribs mixed in with later ones (same airfoil, but different hole configurations and flanges).

You can tell the actual pre-war planes form the post war ones built with pre-war parts mainly by the instrument panels and by testing the steel tubes (for 1010 vs 4130 steel). All of the post war planes had the familiar panels like the 46s. The "just" pre-war planes (39, 40 & 41) will have either the big tack or the Deluxe panel with the shock mount instruments like in the photos here in 41. Lots of the pre-war planes have been retrofitted with post war panels (much simpler and easier to get) but I don't know of ANYONE who would go to all the trouble to put a hard to find and EXPENSIVE to repair big tach or the ridiculously complex shock mount panel into a post war plane (we may be anal, but we aren't STUPID!). That and the Banjo wheels are really hard to find and expensive to rebuild. The round pre-war wheels are available, but I can't get my legs under them comfortably.

Hank

More history than I think most are really interested in.

By the way, the glove boxes are different sizes before and after the war too.

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: New on Barnstormers

Great source on the A-7 parts! There area LOT of post war planes with "funky" mag switches!

On the pre-war planes the early ones used a Farmall pull switch for the mags and the Deluxe used one like in the second picture. Almost totally impossible to find now. Makes the A-7 as common as Dandelions by comparison. I had a totally screwed up one and used the handle to make a copy to mount a key in so I could put a modern mag switch behind the panel for the original look.

Hank

The wheels in the first photo are what were in my plane when I got her. We suspect that they were put in while the War Dept had her in the 40s. I have a set of Banjos I plan to restore, but I still need a center piece for one and haven't had time to make one if I don't find a replacement. The replacement wheels are the most comfortable I have ever used. They should have put them in all the planes after the war. Simple and very comfortable!

Hank, I know that it is the incorrect scheme but they couldn't even get the incorrect scheme right.

Here is the link to the A7 switch info: http://www.airrepairinc.com/a7-switch.html

[Hank Jarrett]

Re: New on Barnstormers

If anyone is interested in the ash trays, here are some photos of an original. Again, why anyone would want to tend a small fire in a fabric covered airplane with 12 gallons of gas over their knees is beyond me!

Dave beat me to the punch on every item....and I agree, BEST version of the "T" ever built!

Hank
NC-36296

By two-piece instrument panel he means that the actual instruments are mounted on a shock panel and the "metal" over the top is only a false front. The insert over the center cluster and the glove box doors were normally Faux wood grained. Looks really nice, but a PAIN to work on. Lucky it is a fairly simple panel and pretty robust. Once it is all working, you will never need to mess with it.
If you REALLY want to nit-pick, there should be a big compass at the top center of the windscreen instead of the one on the glare shield, but they are REALLY RARE (read EXPENSIVE!). I can't tell form the photo if it still has the 6:00 altimeter. Looks like it does, and they are getting pretty hard to find too (should be a sensitive one, the non sensitive ones are pretty common) The panel has also been retrofitted with a post war mag switch, which is getting pretty rare and very expensive too. The originals are almost totally non-existant, but I found a way to replicate one with a modern mag switch. You can sell the one there for enough to update the whole panel (except that big compass). The two large instrument holes between the wheels and the mag switch were usually a ROC and an ash tray (go figure, smoking in a tube and rag plane with 12 gal of gas over your knees!). Many had a T&B in place of the ash tray and the original ash trays are pretty hard to find (I have only ever seen one....I should have bought it!)
The panel is actually a really nice one and perfectly functional...unless your are totally anal about originality, and everything there can be made "like factory new" with a little patience.

One other little thing, there is a screw hidden under the "wings" under the mag switch. IF it is still there, you can bend the panel up pretty bad if you don't know to remove it! Be careful with the glove box door handles. We don't have the mold for new ones ready yet. Don't break them. they are old and brittle!