Good brakes

[skipilot]

I realize this is like beating a dead horse ha ha but looking for information/help on converting a 1941 bc-12-65 to hydraulic brakes. I have been reading threw some of the older posts and taking in some of the information and comments. I would like to stay with the heel brake set up, not a big fan of toe brakes. Seems like Grove is the way to go?

[TimHicks]

Re: Good brakes

I recently changed my BC12-D to Grove wheels and Brakes with Scott master cylinders (think Cub heel brakes)

I love having brakes after 20 years without (effectively).

[barnstmr]

Re: Good brakes

We have a kit set-up for Grove brakes with heel pedals retained.

[skipilot]

Re: Good brakes

Tim did you buy the kit threw grove? Any pics of your set up? Seems to be around the 3k mark for parts. At least what I've been seeing.

[TimHicks]

Re: Good brakes

Yes, I bought a kit from Grove that included new wheels, slave cylinders, axle adapter, and adapter plate for $1289 in Oct 2013.
I spent a total of $2230 on the new wheels and brakes.
The third pic below shows the Grove axle adapter. It's mounted incorrectly in the pic, but it shows the part.
The fifth pic shows the wheel, slave cylinder and the master cylinders in the cabin on the floor boards.

[PA1195]

Re: Good brakes

Here's mine:

Gary

[cvavon]

Re: Good brakes

I was the first to do the grove brakes Tim used my paper work to do his.The file with all the paper work is on the teck section of this site.My 337 was field approved in the Nashville FSDO.Use it for data.If I did it again i would use groves master cylinders and the stock pedals they will bolt to the bracket that the first pully is in and the pedal and are pull type cylinders.The only thing that i don't like is they will make 600 PSI and will give you very strong brakes,with the scott cylinders they make 300PSI and you still have lots of brakes and can lift the tail braking but they are not as touchy.

[skipilot]

Re: Good brakes

Thanks for the help and pictures, looks like I better start hunting for parts!

[Pearson]

Re: Good brakes

I was the first to do the grove brakes Tim used my paper work to do his.The file with all the paper work is on the teck section of this site.My 337 was field approved in the Nashville FSDO.Use it for data.If I did it again i would use groves master cylinders and the stock pedals they will bolt to the bracket that the first pully is in and the pedal and are pull type cylinders.The only thing that i don't like is they will make 600 PSI and will give you very strong brakes,with the scott cylinders they make 300PSI and you still have lots of brakes and can lift the tail braking but they are not as touchy.

Chuck,

When you describe the brakes with the Grove master cylinders as touchy, was that with the large tires, or what size tires. Do you think the Scott cylinders, with their lower output pressure, are powerful enough to stop the 29" tires?

Thanks,

[Pearson]

Re: Good brakes

Has anyone done any calculations on the coefficient of friction and shear forces acting on the bolts that hold the torque plate on?

[cvavon]

Re: Good brakes

I have raised the tail off the ground with the scotts and 26/12.50/6 bush wheels stoping hard. They make 300 PSI the ones grove has make 600 PSI had the plane out yesterday to run the engine as it has sat for 3 months did full throttle run up at 2350 rpm and did not move I HAVE ALL THE BRAKES THAT A TAYLORCRAFT NEEDS OR WILL EVER NEED EVEN IN A EMERGENCY SITUATION !!!!!!! Set up like it is. Now with 7 an 3 bolts and the eight as a guide pin most cessnas have four an 4 holding them

[PA1195]

Re: Good brakes

Has anyone done any calculations on the coefficient of friction and shear forces acting on the bolts that hold the torque plate on?

Not sure what you're looking for but Grove has some design specs on the install prints in Post #5 above. I bet the tire would slip before some hardware lets go.

Gary

[Pearson]

Re: Good brakes

Not sure what you're looking for but Grove has some design specs on the install prints in Post #5 above. I bet the tire would slip before some hardware lets go.

Gary

My concern was that the bolts holding the torque plate on could shear under heavy braking, but apparently that isn't a problem. Still it would be nice to know how far you are from the limit load factor.

[PA1195]

Re: Good brakes

My concern was that the bolts holding the torque plate on could shear under heavy braking, but apparently that isn't a problem. Still it would be nice to know how far you are from the limit load factor.

That might depend on the particular plane's momentum, tire radius, contact patch, and type of braking surface? I'm sure Grove has figured it out. In my experience depending on tire pressure and bead mounting the tire yields before the brakes on small aircraft. Then there's always the nose over to save the brakes for whatever good that does.

Gary

[cvavon]

Re: Good brakes

Such as the Shinn brakes were the screws that taylor put there to hold them were from a hardware store and the bolts i used were aircraft grade an 3 bolt what tork
will a single an 3 yield times 7 and add the guide pin.There is not enough mass with the weight of 1280 lbs to gain enough energy to shear off 7 bolts.